Dissolving the Kalkwasser powder in the Vinegar first

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I have been experimenting with this over the last few weeks on my nano with mixed results. At first I mixed up the kalk with RO water in a 7L container let it settle for 24 hours so all the excess has precipitated out then decant the clear liquid out and use this as my ATO water. This is the recommended method of doing it but what I have found is the saturated lime water loses potency in my ATO and most of it further precipitates out in my ato to leave effectively plain water. I read this probably due to the air getting to it as more carbon dioxide is getting in and causing it to precipitate. I also read that by adding vinegar to the mixture you can increase the potency and stability of the saturated lime water. I tried that and it made the lime water far more potent to the point that I had to dilute 200ml in 1 litre of ro otherwise it would cause an alk spike. This also seemed to spur on an outbreak of GHA probably due to the vinegar being a carbon source.

But I read that dissolving the Kalk powder in the Vinegar first will stop the precipitation later since the vinegar provides an equivalent of all the CO2 you need to avoid precipitating the newly-added Calcium ions. Is this correct?

 

[Hitman]

Interesting thought. I’m following along as I use almost 2 gallons of Kalk a day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m not quite following the first post, but if you are stirring the ato, stop, as that is what drives in CO2 and depletes the limewater far faster than a still reservoir. You do not want to mix just some vinegar into the limewater without adding more lime too as the lower pH will allow it to become a bacterial growth broth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How are you measuring limewater potency? Seeing solid precipitate is not a good measure.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I’m not quite following the first post, but if you are stirring the ato, stop, as that is what drives in CO2 and depletes the limewater far faster than a still reservoir. You do not want to mix just some vinegar into the limewater without adding more lime too as the lower pH will allow it to become a bacterial growth broth.

I am not stirring the ATO but its not very airtight. I measure the potency of the limewater buy using an alkalinity test kit the same way you test your water. If it was potent it will take lots of regent before it turns color much more than your tank water. I know it's not accurate but it tells me if its a strong mixture of limewater.

You never really answered the main question on if mixing the kalk with vinegar first before adding in the ro will have any benefit to the stability of the limewater and help prevent it precipitating out.

Also, I wouldn't mind your opinion on my other thread about diluting Salifert all in one.

 

[High ICP]

Evaporation and carbonate usage are not connected

Why are you putting kalk into your ATO?

Why not dose kalk and water independently of each other? Or rather why are you dosing your ATO instead of your sump.

I have to test this, but CO2(carbonic acid) decreases pH. Vinegar(acetic acid) decreases pH. Why would one form a precipitate and not the other?

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Evaporation and carbonate usage are not connected

Why are you putting kalk into your ATO?

Why not dose kalk and water independently of each other? Or rather why are you dosing your ATO instead of your sump.

I have to test this, but CO2(carbonic acid) decreases pH. Vinegar(acetic acid) decreases pH. Why would one form a precipitate and not the other?

I am not dosing kalk to my ATO I am using the saturated limewater as my top off water. It is a very common practice to do this as it reduces the amount of two-part or other additives you need to add. There is no sump on my tank as it is a red sea max nano with a small ATO container that sits on the back. read this article to see what i am talking about regarding adding the vinegar first http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html

 

[High ICP]

Evaporation and carbonate use are not connected

Why are you connecting them?

That makes no sense to me

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Because its an easy way to dose. I know they are not directly related but if you can get the right balance then it works. In high demand tanks, you still need to dose two part on top of the kalk.

 

[Hermie]

I know this is tangential but I dose kalk(calcium hydroxide) into my ATO Tap water to help precipitate metals before I add it to my tank. I have no idea if it's working.

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

Since i have started doing this I have noticed a significant increase in GHA growth in my tank. I thought it would be having the opposite effect? Could the vinegar be feeding the GHA?

 

[Cory]

If you dose via top off higher ph increases calcification slightly so in this way alkalinity has a smaller chance of getting overdosed. I reccomend using limewater on a dosing pump.

 

[BeejReef]

Dosing kalk is a solid setup, but I think you're chasing your tail with the vinegar. That's usually done only after you've reached the limit of solubility for kalk/volume of RODI your tank requires and are still falling short of replenishing your calcium and alkalinity. There's no reason to use vinegar until your tank demands more than two teaspoons/gallon of RODI. Adding vinegar won't stop you from seeing some precipitant in your ATO reservoir. The act of decanting and pouring will mix in more C02 and result in some additional precipitation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Evaporation and carbonate usage are not connected

Why are you putting kalk into your ATO?

Why not dose kalk and water independently of each other? Or rather why are you dosing your ATO instead of your sump.

I have to test this, but CO2(carbonic acid) decreases pH. Vinegar(acetic acid) decreases pH. Why would one form a precipitate and not the other?

It is not the pH that causes precipitation, it is the specific chemistry of carbonate (calcium carbonate is insoluble) vs acetate (calcium acetate is soluble).

Why are you putting kalk into your ATO?

It isn't perfect, but it is tried and true. I used it that way for 20 years.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Since i have started doing this I have noticed a significant increase in GHA growth in my tank. I thought it would be having the opposite effect? Could the vinegar be feeding the GHA?

That's not likely the cause.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Evaporation and carbonate use are not connected

Why are you connecting them?

That makes no sense to me

Convenience.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not stirring the ATO but its not very airtight. I measure the potency of the limewater buy using an alkalinity test kit the same way you test your water. If it was potent it will take lots of regent before it turns color much more than your tank water. I know it's not accurate but it tells me if its a strong mixture of limewater.

You never really answered the main question on if mixing the kalk with vinegar first before adding in the ro will have any benefit to the stability of the limewater and help prevent it precipitating out.

Also, I wouldn't mind your opinion on my other thread about diluting Salifert all in one.

Measuring alk of limewater to test potency is fine. It should be VERY high. But you do not know the relative strength unless you compare it to something, like a sample of actual saturated limewater (or you know what it should be).

Lowering pH a little (say, 12 instead of 12.5) will stabilize limewater against precipitation. Lowering it below 10 will cause bacteria to grow in it, making it unstable.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Saturated limewater is about 40.8 meq/L, or 114 dKH.

 

[Oldsalt]

You never really answered the main question on if mixing the kalk with vinegar first before adding in the ro will have any benefit to the stability of the limewater and help prevent it precipitating out.

Also, I wouldn't mind your opinion on my other thread about diluting Salifert all in one.

I still see that nobody has answerd @recci's question - can he dissolve kalkwasser powder in vinegar? It's a simple question and he asked for a good reason - will kalkwasser powder dissolve better in vinegar than in water? Yes or no.

I came here because I'm Googling the net for "I cannot get kalkwasser to dissolve in my RODI water at all". All I get is the run around. Everyone skirts the issue by talking about the fundamentals of this stuff. I know all that. I just want somebody to help me figure out why this powder will not dissolve. Brand new tub of Seachem kalkwasser needs to be either thrown out or I should get a refund if it's contaminated.

Can anyone please give me an idea why I can't get Seachem kalkwasser to dissolve no matter what I do? Even less than half of a teaspoon in a gallon won't dissolve. Seriously.

Also can anyone please try to answer @recci 's question?

@recci I will see if the stuff dissolves in vinegar after I figure out why it won't dissolve in water. Then I'll let you know my result.

Cheers

 

[The Opinionated Reefer]

I still see that nobody has answerd @recci's question - can he dissolve kalkwasser powder in vinegar? It's a simple question and he asked for a good reason - will kalkwasser powder dissolve better in vinegar than in water? Yes or no.

I came here because I'm Googling the net for "I cannot get kalkwasser to dissolve in my RODI water at all". All I get is the run around. Everyone skirts the issue by talking about the fundamentals of this stuff. I know all that. I just want somebody to help me figure out why this powder will not dissolve. Brand new tub of Seachem kalkwasser needs to be either thrown out or I should get a refund if it's contaminated.

Can anyone please give me an idea why I can't get Seachem kalkwasser to dissolve no matter what I do? Even less than half of a teaspoon in a gallon won't dissolve. Seriously.

Also can anyone please try to answer @recci 's question?

@recci I will see if the stuff dissolves in vinegar after I figure out why it won't dissolve in water. Then I'll let you know my result.

Cheers

I just dissolve it in vinegar first then add the RO and it seems to work ok. Definalty more potent than without the vinegar. So your saying the kalk won't dissolve at all in the water, it must become cloudy surly?

There will always be some precipitant but you should test the Alkalinity of the clear water after it settles to see if any has actually dissolved.