Disease identification for angelfish

[chad 1079]

Hi , got this Annularis Angelfish last week and initially he had a few spots on his fins so I treated him with paraguard and I thought he was good. Stopped treating the tank with paraguard after 5 days and two days later he's covered. Can't figure out if it's flukes or velvet? Anybody have any thoughts?
Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is it only the annularis showing symptoms? The semicirculatus seems to have some discoloration as well.

Velvet would show as rapid breathing, not eating and hanging in the water current. Any spots would be very tiny, more like a matte finish.

This species is really prone to Neobenedenia flukes - but that shows as cloudy eyes. scratching and tattered fins.

That only leaves two probable causes: marine ich or mucus spots. I've never seen a fish with that many mucus spots, so I'd have to conclude it is a severe case of ich. However, if NONE of the other fish have symptoms, we are back to the mucus spot idea.

Paraguard simply doesn't work well in marine systems, I only use it in FW now.

Can you post a video of this and the other fish?

Jay

 

[chad 1079]

Is it only the annularis showing symptoms? The semicirculatus seems to have some discoloration as well.

Velvet would show as rapid breathing, not eating and hanging in the water current. Any spots would be very tiny, more like a matte finish.

This species is really prone to Neobenedenia flukes - but that shows as cloudy eyes. scratching and tattered fins.

That only leaves two probable causes: marine ich or mucus spots. I've never seen a fish with that many mucus spots, so I'd have to conclude it is a severe case of ich. However, if NONE of the other fish have symptoms, we are back to the mucus spot idea.

Paraguard simply doesn't work well in marine systems, I only use it in FW now.

Can you post a video of this and the other fish?

Jay

Hey Jay, thanks for responding. No the Annularis seems to have it the worse and first but my purple tang and bicolor foxfire seem to have it too. Just not as bad. So far I've put prazipro in the tank thinking it's flukes, but after 2 days it didn't seem any better so I added Ich-x to the tank because I read online you can use both medications at the same time. Honestly I really want to put cupramine in the tank but I've read it's not recommended while using prazipro so I went with ich-x instead. Most of the fish are actually hanging out top by the current and I believe a couple have stopped eating. So I'm now either thinking ich or velvet. I thought flukes because they looked big on the angelfish, but he's definitely not eating and hanging out at the top of tank. I've never used Ich-x personally, I usually use cupramine. Do you have any experience with Ich-x ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ich-x is another related medication that doesn’t work well against saltwater ich - it is formaldehyde and malachite green while Paraguard is another aldehyde and a dye.
Coppersafe at 2.5 ppm would be my choice at this point, but you need to move quickly because it can take 3+ days the start working.
If you post a video I can judge better what is going on.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Take my word and Jay's word. . . . Paraguard rarely if ever has an impact with treatment and Ich-x is literally a tonich and in some cases ive seen place fish in distress. Coppersafe or copperPower is your friend here and based on severity of the angel and others- Time is of essense.
You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a 55 gallon starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials

 

[chad 1079]

Take my word and Jay's word. . . . Paraguard rarely if ever has an impact with treatment and Ich-x is literally a tonich and in some cases ive seen place fish in distress. Coppersafe or copperPower is your friend here and based on severity of the angel and others- Time is of essense.
You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a 55 gallon starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials

Thanks guys I appreciate the advice. I used to always be a Copper guy(constantly run Copper In my tank) in my fish only tanks(this one is a 210 fish only tank). But a couple of fish I got last fall after it cycled(new tank only been set up since October) actually had flukes(cloudy eyes listless on the bottom) so since I know any parasites are hard to get rid of I just assumed it was flukes so I put prazipro in the tank. But it was been almost 3 days so I guess it's not flukes. Oh jay when I get home I'll upload a video. Do you think I can get away with putting a couple of bags of carbon in the tank ( in the filters) for few hours to remove the ich-x and prazipro before I add the cupramine ? Or would you do a small water change first? Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks guys I appreciate the advice. I used to always be a Copper guy(constantly run Copper In my tank) in my fish only tanks(this one is a 210 fish only tank). But a couple of fish I got last fall after it cycled(new tank only been set up since October) actually had flukes(cloudy eyes listless on the bottom) so since I know any parasites are hard to get rid of I just assumed it was flukes so I put prazipro in the tank. But it was been almost 3 days so I guess it's not flukes. Oh jay when I get home I'll upload a video. Do you think I can get away with putting a couple of bags of carbon in the tank ( in the filters) for few hours to remove the ich-x and prazipro before I add the cupramine ? Or would you do a small water change first? Thanks

Carbon or Seachem Matrix will help remove.
Cupramine is a buffered copper- Treatment is .5 and NOT 2.5 as with chelated copper

 

[chad 1079]

Carbon or Seachem Matrix will help remove.
Cupramine is a buffered copper- Treatment is .5 and NOT 2.5 as with chelated copper

Gotcha thanks.

 

[chad 1079]

 

[chad 1079]

Hey Jay here's the video. Ran a couple of mesh bags of carbon in the tank for a couple of hours. Now I've put cupramine in the tank. While I think some of them have velvet, not sure what that foxface has. Would you put another dose of prazipro In? It's been 3 days so I could re-add it. I've just never mixed any other meds with cupramine before? Thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay here's the video. Ran a couple of mesh bags of carbon in the tank for a couple of hours. Now I've put cupramine in the tank. While I think some of them have velvet, not sure what that foxface has. Would you put another dose of prazipro In? It's been 3 days so I could re-add it. I've just never mixed any other meds with cupramine before? Thoughts?

Sorry, I can’t view the video on my phone. You should wait 8 days before dosing Prazipro again.
I don’t like mixing Prazipro with Cupramine, I’ve heard of people having reactions doing that.
What copper test kit do you have?
Jay

 

[chad 1079]

Sorry, I can’t view the video on my phone. You should wait 8 days before dosing Prazipro again.
I don’t like mixing Prazipro with Cupramine, I’ve heard of people having reactions doing that.
What copper test kit do you have?
Jay

Sorry, I can’t view the video on my phone. You should wait 8 days before dosing Prazipro again.
I don’t like mixing Prazipro with Cupramine, I’ve heard of people having reactions doing that.
What copper test kit do you have?
Jay

Thanks Jay. It's a API test. Cupramine is actually 2 doses, waiting 48 hours in between.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I got home and looked at the video, - this is advanced marine ich, Cryptocaryon.

Don't wait 48 hours, 12 at most....just enough for the first dose to mix and get an accurate test reading for the second dose. You need to hurry and get to a full dose. The copper won't work immediately, it takes three days or so and these fish may not last that long.

The water also looks murky - is that a function of the video, or is it actually murky? If so, that is going to make matters worse - you'll need to ensure there is no ammonia, and if you need to do partial water changes, you'll need to redose the replacement water with copper.

NEVER add ammonia remover chemicals with Cupramine, it can kill your fish.

Jay

 

[chad 1079]

I got home and looked at the video, - this is advanced marine ich, Cryptocaryon.

Don't wait 48 hours, 12 at most....just enough for the first dose to mix and get an accurate test reading for the second dose. You need to hurry and get to a full dose. The copper won't work immediately, it takes three days or so and these fish may not last that long.

The water also looks murky - is that a function of the video, or is it actually murky? If so, that is going to make matters worse - you'll need to ensure there is no ammonia, and if you need to do partial water changes, you'll need to redose the replacement water with copper.

NEVER add ammonia remover chemicals with Cupramine, it can kill your fish.

Jay

Thanks Jay, I checked and the Ammonia is fine. It is cloudy, but unfortunately it usually is a little cloudy. Granted a little cloudier than usual issuing from the medications. Yeah I'm going to add the second dose tonight. Thanks again for the advice!

 

[Big E]

Get a Hannah copper checker and save yourself a lot of uncertainty.

I'd also put a Seachem ammonia badge in there...........again, eliminates any guesswork on tests.