Dirty water for zoas and Palys.....My take

[Azurel]

I have seen alot of discussions on this topic on quite a few boards lately.....We are having one on MIreefers.com also.....Here is my take on the subject and wanted to get a discussion here as well.....Since we are the elite zoa keepers of the world....HAHAHAHA.....Now my tank on the subject...


Personally I think zoas and palys grow in all conditions. If you tank the natural state of where zoas grow"in the ocean" there are a continuous column of water that flows over them this water in the ocean is full of particles and plankton etc....So the zoas are continuously receiving a fresh water with a continuous supply of particles and plankton to use and absorb what nutrients they need for there survival.
At the same time the zooanthellae Algae need light and nutrients from the polyps itself to produce the sugars that the zoa in turn uses to feed itself and the algae.

Now I can see where the growth can be inhibited in tanks like SPS where the water is too or over filtered, I will talk about this in a minute....I think there is a bit of a misconception or the term "dirty water". I think people think that the dirty water that these polyps love is tanks with low or no filtration which leads to high nutrients which in all likely hood the polyps wouldn't be in in the natural state on the reef either. The dirty water that people compare to when it comes to the ocean is apples and oranges. Dirty water to me is water that is high in phytoplankton, unseen bacterioplankton, particulate matter as the Corals would receive on the reef etc... Not high nitrates, high undissolved organics, in-organics as the ocean has a method of removing this from the water that has worked for millions of years and has become more effecant then even our best skimmers.........

I'm sure there are areas of any reef that are high in nitrates, undissolved organics and in-organics etc...But wouldn't the high nitrates, undissolved organics and in-organics in the wild be just as prohibitive as in our tanks? The only difference is the water flow that is over them in the reef is continuous and the polyps never see the same water again in most cases. Unless close to shore where there is draw back from the water coming back from the beach. In these cases of high nitrates, organics and in-organics that is usually caused by pollution and as far as I can can tell in all of my readings and research pollution is not a good thing and would in my opinion not help the growth of any coral. In SPS tanks the filtration is so good that if there were to be any naturally growing phytoplankton, bacterioplankton along with a host of other useful supplies of natural food it would get filtered out.

I personally think that any tank that has been set up for many years is actually producing a small amount of plankton that the Corals will use along with the minerals in the salt mix that is refreshed with every water change. I haven't done this personally but I think there is some probability that tanks that get less water changes but have enough filtration and nutrient export wither mechanical or natural like the use of some Corals could very well be better suited as these tanks with the lower filtration but good water quality would produce a larger amount of plankton and have enough particulate matter in the water column to help growth and health.

When I first got my Purple Deaths I wondered about the sand and particulate matter the gets trapped and used in the stolons of the polyp. I talked to James Reimers(last name spelling?) I asked him that if they use sand and particulate matter in their tissue would they be better off on the sand? He told me that in most cases that in thanks with sufficient flow there will always be an amount of particulate matter in the water column even though we can't see it...... So I moved them back to where I wanted them and sure enough they continue to absorb particulate matter in to their tissue even though they are now in the rock work.....just as an example.....This is just my opinion that has been drawn over the many years in the marine hobby and doing as much research as one can do....

 

[twon8]

my take is that they will grow anywhere there is sufficient light and a minimum of food, they grow in nature in 'dirty' water(ie near sewage pipes) not because they prefer it, but because they don't care and nothing else can live there. they adapt to their surroundings

ive got tanks heavily skimmed and heavily fed and zoas grow great

 

[Kigs!]

It's good that you distinguish the difference what some might call "dirty water." Even though I agree that regular water changes are overall beneficial to the livestock in the tank, I have gone through several ordeals where I witnessed zoanthids being extremely irritated after water changes. I'm speaking from a point of view of someone that rarely does water changes. Maybe it was a shock to the zoanthids that there was a sudden water change. Maybe regular scheduled water change that they get accustomed to will be beneficial.

 

[Zeppelin]

I try to change water in my systems every weekend. Really try to keep it as 'clean' as I can. On one of the systems, I run phosban reactors, 1 with rowaphos and 1 with carbon. On this same system I started also running a Fluval 400 with nothing but carbon in it(3 trays), to see what polishing the water further did to the zoos and other corals in that system. In the tank where I had the Fluval going in and out of, I began getting zoas starting to bleach here and there. I have since turned the Fluval off, and the bleaching has started to reverse in the affected polyps. It was weird. I have zoas in other tanks plumbed into the same system that were fine, just the tank where the Fluval was directly running in and out of was effected. Flow in all 3 tanks is above average. I have a Hammerhead running the 3 tanks, and the tanks all have 2" drains, so I can hit them with real good flow. I also have an 8-bulb T-5 fixture over the affected tank. May have been a combo of the extra clean tank water and the amount of light over that tank. The other 2 tanks in the system only have 4-bulb T-5s.

There's my very unscientific contribution to the subject.

 

[JGoslee]

My tank is pretty clean. I do weekly 20gal water changes on my 58gal. I have a Deltec AP600 pulling out a cup of skim mate every 2-3 days. I also run ZEO on my tank. I've had great growth from most of my collection. There are a few that are slow growers but overall I get alot of growth.

 

[revhtree]

I have a friend with a mostly sps tank, heavily skimmed and the sps are growing out of the water. I gave him 4 polyps of PPE about 6 months ago and the frag has grown over 30 polyps in a very clean tank.

 

[Chelsey]

Chadfarmer's tank is the epitome of overkill. His skimmer is overkill, he's got a TON of flow, a nice calcium reactor, etc. He can grow zoanthids unlike anyone I've seen. Can't quite figure it out.

 

[revhtree]

Chelsey thats the may my friends is. He has a skimmer rated for like 500g on a 90 corner, with calcium reactor and the works, i mean the works, and he grows zoanthids and palys like no other I have seen.

 

[vetteman]

I wash my socks in the tank is that good?

 

[Azurel]

Do you have zoas between your toes?.....LOl...

 

[MarvinsReef]

I've been running my 32g for about 7 months with no skimmer but with frequent 10%-20% waterchange.. I try to keep my water change schedule every 7-10 days as long as I remember..

the thing about zoas is IMO they will adapt to whatever environment they are in... as long as they get ample lighting, flow, and food, they will do okay... most will have a certain amount of time to acclimate to their new environment before taking off.. I can never tell what that time period is as some will only take days, some weeks, and some even months...

I do plan on adding a HOB skimmer in the future to help with my fish load (4 fairy wrasses) and to help prevent future problems with algae... I do run carbon in my tank now since the red algae bloom..

hope this made sense..

 

[Azurel]

The algae that grows between them can be caused by the detritus that precipitates on to them as it falls from the water column.

My point was that there is a misunderstanding of the term dirty water when you compare it to the ocean and what is called dirty water in our tanks. My point was that the best possibility for great growth and health is the best water conditions that one can provide. The best situation is a tank that has perfect water parameters while not being over-skimmed or over filtered and that does not have high bad nutrients such as phosphates, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia which all can lead to issues that will prohibit growth and lead to issues with algae and nuisance algae. Which can cause other problems with it growing into zoa colonies and frags.......

One of the reasons I used the term over skimmed is because skimmers will and do skim out minerals and elements that are needed for the growth of corals, when one over skims at a higher rate then the corals can use what is available you can lead to a prohibitive growth of not zoas/palys but other corals as well. In cases like this one would need to supplement more often because of the continued lack or taking up of minerals that are needed. I over skim a bit as well my remora is rated for 100g and is on a 40g tank. But the skimmer is one of only 2 filters on my tank and is the main piece of equipment filtering my water........

 

[Darren]

If you want your Zoas to smeel like feet! Where in NC are you?

 

[Darren]

You folks too fast. My last post was a response to Vetteman.