Dinos survived 5 day blackout and Dino X - Need help on ID and treatment

[DrMMI]

So as the title says, the dinos in the video below survived a 5 day black out, all while dosing dino x. Does anyone have an idea as to the species? (excuse my kids popping bubble wrap in the background, you can just turn the volume down). I took some screenshots of the videos that wouldn't upload.

Long version is that I've been battling dinos since about Nov. I have a 7ft 300g mixed reef. Nutrients had bottomed out for several months combined with 2 sand sifting star fish that decimated my sand bed fauna, Despite raising nutrients, I can't seem to get rid of them. I've tried multiple 3 day black outs, Dr. Tim's recipe for dinos, dosing microbacter, elevated temps for a week, dosing silica, plumbing UV to/from display, and now I'm on dose 6 of Dino x after doing a 5 day blackout. I also got a piece of live rock from my LFS about a week ago to help change up the bacterial diversity. By the end of the blackout, the sand and rocks were completely clear. Within 2 hours of turning on my blues at only 50%, the dinos already started to come back. I'm really starting to feel defeated here. Does anyone know if there's any harm in dosing dino x and hydrogen peroxide? Or dosing microbacter on alternate days of the dino x?

 

[LOVEROCK]

did you start out with dry rock?

 

[Aquatic Lifeline]

I'm so sorry, Dino's can be a hand full.
I do have a odd question to ask
Do you use cleaning products or aerosols near your tank?
In my experience I have seen established tanks explode with different kinds of bacteria because these products being used too close to their tanks.
Even incense or cigarette smoke can cause bacterial blooms especially if there's not enough air filtration in the room that you're aquariums in.
If you can't pinpoint the issue internally start looking externally.

 

[DrMMI]

I'm so sorry, Dino's can be a hand full.
I do have a odd question to ask
Do you use cleaning products or aerosols near your tank?
In my experience I have seen established tanks explode with different kinds of bacteria because these products being used too close to their tanks.
Even incense or cigarette smoke can cause bacterial blooms especially if there's not enough air filtration in the room that you're aquariums in.
If you can't pinpoint the issue internally start looking externally.

Interesting idea. There is a Glade plug in near the tank. I'll remove it and see if that makes a difference.

 

[nezw0001]

In watching all these threads posted on Dinos it really seems like Dino outbreaks are extremely common on a new set up using predominately dry rock. I went through it too and took a multi pronged approach.

1. Add a large UV system
2. Increase N and P - actually had to dose N and P
3. Turned skimmer off
4. Increase biodiversity - add live rock from the ocean (TBS, KP, etc), add pods, dose phyto, add sand from others tanks

I also used the steps you did with little to no sucess

 

[tehmadreefer]

Dino’s don’t go away overnight or even in a week or 2...

It takes weeks to months. a blackout won’t do anything either. Run high nutrients and UV. Get GHA/diatoms growing to out compete the Dino’s.
Stop with the bottled crap, it only will make things worse.

 

[tehmadreefer]

In watching all these threads posted on Dinos it really seems like Dino outbreaks are extremely common on a new set up using predominately dry rock. I went through it too and took a multi pronged approach.

1. Add a large UV system
2. Increase N and P - actually had to dose N and P
3. Turned skimmer off
4. Increase biodiversity - add live rock from the ocean (TBS, KP, etc), add pods, dose phyto, add sand from others tanks

I also used the steps you did with little to no sucess

yep

 

[DrMMI]

I know they don't go away overnight, but I would have expected some improvement by now. I forgot to mention I've actually also dosed phytoplankton and pods from algaebarn multiple times too. My UV is still connected. I run it 24/7. My phosphates are 0.75 and nitrates are 10. I haven't let them bottom out since Nov. When I ignore them, they just continue to spread like wild fire. I have gha in my sump and overflow box. My tangs and cuc don't give it a chance to grow in the display. I can't seem to get diatoms growing despite heavily dosing silica. No matter how much I dosed, within an hour my silica level was 0.

 

[DrMMI]

did you start out with dry rock?

I had about 80 pounds of live rock and the rest was dry. I also used about 50/50 live sand and nonlive aragonite

 

[tehmadreefer]

Well if you have a sand bed, start taking the sand out and go bare bottom or replace with new sand. That’ll help as well.

 

[DrMMI]

Well if you have a sand bed, start taking the sand out and go bare bottom or replace with new sand. That’ll help as well.

Is that effective? I've read on here that some people tried that but it came back as soon as they put the sand bed back. I have a melanarus wrasse, a yellow coris wrasse, and a diamond goby that will probably need a new home if I do that as well.

 

[AZMSGT]

Perhaps try raising the temp to 82 is worth a try?

Is This the Dinoflagellate Treatment We’ve all been Hoping for? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Being a reef aquarists, means dealing with nuisance algae, parasites, and other pests… Cyanobacteria, AEFW, Red Bugs, and who here remembers that pink cotton candy algae (Callithamnion)?

reefbuilders.com

 

[DrMMI]

Perhaps try raising the temp to 82 is worth a try?

Is This the Dinoflagellate Treatment We’ve all been Hoping for? | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

Being a reef aquarists, means dealing with nuisance algae, parasites, and other pests… Cyanobacteria, AEFW, Red Bugs, and who here remembers that pink cotton candy algae (Callithamnion)?

reefbuilders.com

Yep, tried that for a week. Didn't help at all. Maybe got a little worse actually.

 

[AZMSGT]

Yep, tried that for a week. Didn't help at all. Maybe got a little worse actually.

Raise it to 83 and try it a month. A week is nothing and your temp gauge is likely not accurate. Combine it with making sure Nitrates and Phosphates are up.

 

[ScottB]

So as the title says, the dinos in the video below survived a 5 day black out, all while dosing dino x. Does anyone have an idea as to the species? (excuse my kids popping bubble wrap in the background, you can just turn the volume down). I took some screenshots of the videos that wouldn't upload.

Long version is that I've been battling dinos since about Nov. I have a 7ft 300g mixed reef. Nutrients had bottomed out for several months combined with 2 sand sifting star fish that decimated my sand bed fauna, Despite raising nutrients, I can't seem to get rid of them. I've tried multiple 3 day black outs, Dr. Tim's recipe for dinos, dosing microbacter, elevated temps for a week, dosing silica, plumbing UV to/from display, and now I'm on dose 6 of Dino x after doing a 5 day blackout. I also got a piece of live rock from my LFS about a week ago to help change up the bacterial diversity. By the end of the blackout, the sand and rocks were completely clear. Within 2 hours of turning on my blues at only 50%, the dinos already started to come back. I'm really starting to feel defeated here. Does anyone know if there's any harm in dosing dino x and hydrogen peroxide? Or dosing microbacter on alternate days of the dino x?

I am going to tag @taricha for a confirm, but that looks like large cell amphidinium to me. Assuming I have the ID correct, then there is some good/bad news.

Good news: they are not that toxic to inverts and corals. (Many fail to appreciate how good this news actually is.)
Bad news: They are notoriously difficult to get rid of and annoying to look at.

 

[Charles4400]

Dino x is working for me and results didn't show until dose 9 or 10 for me. Now cyno is growing over the dinos and replacing them which is great news to me! Full dose is 15 and I plan to use it until then. I also had temp raised to 83 during this whole time though dont know if temp is a factor in the dino decline.

Followin the recommended lighting schedule and only dose alk and/or kalk. Skim wet and on all the time.

I also tried everything such as silicate, high nutrients, blackouts only help temporarily, uv etc. and saved dino x as the last resort nuclear option but its working! No losses and though I am afraid to do param checks as Im sure nitrate and phosphate are off the charts everything is still alive.

Ymmv and good luck!

 

[DrMMI]

Dino x is working for me and results didn't show until dose 9 or 10 for me. Now cyno is growing over the dinos and replacing them which is great news to me! Full dose is 15 and I plan to use it until then. I also had temp raised to 83 during this whole time though dont know if temp is a factor in the dino decline.

Followin the recommended lighting schedule and only dose alk and/or kalk. Skim wet and on all the time.

I also tried everything such as silicate, high nutrients, blackouts only help temporarily, uv etc. and saved dino x as the last resort nuclear option but its working! No losses and though I am afraid to do param checks as Im sure nitrate and phosphate are off the charts everything is still alive.

Ymmv and good luck!

That's encouraging to hear. I'll definitely go the full treatment regimen. I'm going to bump up the dose tonight to 6ml/100L. I might as well increase the temp for the remainder as well. So far all my livestock seems to be doing ok.

I am going to tag @taricha for a confirm, but that looks like large cell amphidinium to me. Assuming I have the ID correct, then there is some good/bad news.

Good news: they are not that toxic to inverts and corals. (Many fail to appreciate how good this news actually is.)
Bad news: They are notoriously difficult to get rid of and annoying to look at.

That's what I was thinking it was, but doesn't the last close up picture look like prorocentrum? I've been losing a lot of snails, but I think it's because the dinos are outcompeting any other source of algae so they're starving out.

 

[ScottB]

That's what I was thinking it was, but doesn't the last close up picture look like prorocentrum? I've been losing a lot of snails, but I think it's because the dinos are outcompeting any other source of algae so they're starving out.

Here is @taricha ID guide. I have been wrong before, but amphids is what I am seeing right now.

 

[LOVEROCK]

I had about 80 pounds of live rock and the rest was dry. I also used about 50/50 live sand and nonlive aragonite

Live rock from the ocean ? Or just live rock from bottled

 

[DrMMI]

Live rock from the ocean ? Or just live rock from bottled

I bought the tank from someone who had it running for a few years. But due to some issues, I couldn't set up the tank right away. So the rock and livestock sat in someone else's tank for 2 months. The rock was wet the entire time. It's a 260 gallon tank, but he only had 80 pounds of rock in there by the time I bought the tank. I added another 1000 pounds of dry rock when I set it up.