Dinos? Diatoms? Cyano? Oh my!

seastar · Aug 3, 2017

Ok, my tank has been setup for 6-7 months for this very much could just be "the uglies". This has been going on probably 6 weeks without much sigh of slowing down.

Under the scope the move like crazy for 5-10 min and then all die off. It looks like they have two tiny clear tails (sorry my microscope shot doesn't show that well).

It's the typical clean one day and back in full force once the lights go back on.

Nitrates: undetectable (RedSea)
Phosphates: .04-.05 (Hanna)

Video: (I try to change focus a few times and move it around a bit - There's some interesting stuff around :22 and :46 as well :O)

Tank Shot: (Notice it's on the glass at the top as well?)

Microscope:

KJ · Aug 3, 2017

From the pic it looks like Cyano.

seastar · Aug 3, 2017

Yeah it has a brownish red color to it to the human eye so I was thinking it might be cyano too. It looks a lot more green under the microscope. Does cyano move around? This stuff was definitely going haywire (you can see it doing it's thing in the video). They also appeared to have small clear whip like tails which the video doesn't show all that well.

seastar · Aug 4, 2017

Just checking to see if anyone else had any thoughts on this, I REALLY want to 100% identify these little suckers so that I can treat it and share my results.

seastar · Aug 8, 2017

I'm hoping to give this one more try. I bought a pretty expensive microscope just for the help I might get here. The video probably tells a better story than the photos. You can see they're pretty fast.

seastar · Aug 31, 2017

After having done a lot more looking I'm pretty sure I have not one, but two kinds of dinoflagellates! Woot!

Amphidinium sp. and Ostreopsis sp.

I have been siphoning daily (with 15% water change), 2 doses of hydrogen peroxide daily, UV filter. and it always comes back a day or two after if I miss a day of siphoning. I guess Im going to have to do all of those AND run a three day black out, which Im not pumped about doing as I recently added a bunch of SPS frags.

Ostreopsis sp. in my video

Amphidinium sp. (I think form images I've found online) and top right corner it probably some cyano as well! How lucky am I??? Hahahaha.

ItsAName · Aug 31, 2017

What microscope did you get?
How are you dosing peroxide?

seastar · Sep 1, 2017

ItsAName said:
What microscope did you get?
How are you dosing peroxide?

1.) I bought an OMAX: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0094JTZOU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2.) Two ways, which is probably overkill. I have an oxydator in the sump but only running 3%, instead of the 6% they say to use because I'm dosing 3% into the display 2x a day at 1ml/10gallons (in my case 14ml)

Beardo · Sep 1, 2017

seastar said:
After having done a lot more looking I'm pretty sure I have not one, but two kinds of dinoflagellates! Woot!

Amphidinium sp. and Ostreopsis sp.

I have been siphoning daily (with 15% water change), 2 doses of hydrogen peroxide daily, UV filter. and it always comes back a day or two after if I miss a day of siphoning. I guess Im going to have to do all of those AND run a three day black out, which Im not pumped about doing as I recently added a bunch of SPS frags.

Ostreopsis sp. in my video

Amphidinium sp. (I think form images I've found online) and top right corner it probably some cyano as well! How lucky am I??? Hahahaha.

I agree they are Osteopsis and Amphidinium. I've been fighting them both myself along with 2 other species.
Here's a couple closer pic of amphidinum if it helps confirm your id.

The UV should help reduce the numbers of Ostroepsis, as long as it is proper size and low flow, but won't do anything for the amphidinium since they don't go into the water column like many others. Personally, UV hasn't done much for me but my unit may be undersized for my tank. Lights out doesn't do much to kill dinos but will make things look better for a time. One benefit though is it will keep the Ostreopsis in the water column which should help to get them through the UV. You could also decrease your lighting schedule and achieve some of the same benefit.

As for peroxide, I went as high as 3 ml/10 gallons twice a day with no significant impact to the dino population.

Removing your sandbed may help in reducing the amphidinium population as well as removing Ostreopsis cysts which can accumulate there.

I have no direct experience with it yet but have read that Dino-X will kill amphidinium dinos but won't do anything for the Ostreopsis. I have a bottle now and will be giving it s try in the future.

Just throwing a few things out there in hopes they are helpful to you. I still have dinos myself so obviously don't have it figured out.

seastar · Sep 1, 2017

Thank you! I was really hoping for a reply like that. That definitely helps confirm.

I have a pretty large 55watt UV light (attached). It actually totally makes sense now that the UV will effect Ostroepsis but not Amphidinium. That's exactly what I'm seeing and I've been super frustrated the Amphidinium numbers haven't gone down while the Ostroepsis are getting harder and harder to find under the microscope. I really don't want to remove my sandbed but I know that's definitely something that needs to be on the table.

Have you tried the 3 day blackout yet? I was going to do that this weekend. Out of curiosity I killed all my whites and reds in my LEDs today and the sandbed PAR went from 180 or so to 80. I don't see anything growing today so that's at least some slightly positive news.

Beardo · Sep 1, 2017

I have done multiple blackout from 3 days all the way up to 8 days. It looks better after but always returns. I don't blame you for not wanting to remove your sandbed, I did it out of desperation and still have dinos.

I'm not quite ready to test the Dino-X in tank since right now I'm pulling the corals I have left and treating them and placing in another tank before resetting. I may try a drop in a sample with amphidinium and check it under the scope to see what reaction there is. I have read of others that had success with it on amphidinium though some had some loss of livestock. I will let you know if I learn anything on that front.

I have tried literally everything else I could find, except bleach, without success. I like the idea of maintaining steady nutrients and biodiversity for long term success.

Nice tank. Keep up with the UV and get rid of those Ostreopsis since you are having success there.

seastar · Sep 19, 2017

Beardo said:
I have done multiple blackout from 3 days all the way up to 8 days. It looks better after but always returns. I don't blame you for not wanting to remove your sandbed, I did it out of desperation and still have dinos.

I'm not quite ready to test the Dino-X in tank since right now I'm pulling the corals I have left and treating them and placing in another tank before resetting. I may try a drop in a sample with amphidinium and check it under the scope to see what reaction there is. I have read of others that had success with it on amphidinium though some had some loss of livestock. I will let you know if I learn anything on that front.

I have tried literally everything else I could find, except bleach, without success. I like the idea of maintaining steady nutrients and biodiversity for long term success.

Nice tank. Keep up with the UV and get rid of those Ostreopsis since you are having success there.

I am currently trying to raise my nitrates to 10 and my phosphates to .1. Have yuo given that a go yet? It seems to be working for a ton of people.

Beardo · Sep 19, 2017

seastar said:
I am currently trying to raise my nitrates to 10 and my phosphates to .1. Have yuo given that a go yet? It seems to be working for a ton of people.

I have been trying that. Started back in mid July and initially saw positive results then dinos exploded and most of my remaining corals started to take a turn for the worse. Started pulling and treating corals to put in another tank I started in preparation of a full reset on my large tank. I significantly reduced lights and stopped dosing phosphates and nitrates for a few weeks but nutrient levels did remain elevated throughout; about 5 ppm nitrates and .07 ppm phosphates. As a last ditch effort to prevent a reset I installed a larger UV (114 watt AquaUV) and plumbed into my return line. Within a week of installing the larger UV, I was unable to find a trace of Ostreopsis, Coolia of Prorocentrum dinos. Still have the 2 species of amphidinium though. I have returned the lights to normal and have been dosing phosphates and nitrates to keep levels in the target range from that thread. We will see how it goes over the next month.

Interesting note (to me at least); I did low salinity dips and peroxide dips on the corals I pulled from main tank. These dips killed all the Ostreopsis, Coolia and Prorocentrum dinos but not the Amphidinium (also didn't kill encysted dinos as expected). I went ahead and treated both my treatment tank and the new 50 cube, as I had already moved some of the corals over, with Dino-X and that took care of the amphidinium. I had performed some tests first by adding a drop of Dino-X to a slide with amphidinium and then a drop to the sample cup and checked both under microscope. The amphidinium were killed almost instantly in both. Of course a drop on a slide is alot stronger dose than tank treatment.

I will continue with elevated nutrients but if that doesn't take care of the remaining dinos I will treat my big display with Dino-X.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate everyone that has responded with different options.