DIATOMS. Please help determine the source.

[TopClamSkoo]

Hey fellas,

I need help in determining what may be feeding diatoms in my 10 gallon tank. It is officially 9 months old now... i had a diatom bloom two months into setting up my tank but went away on the 3rd month mark. I HAVE 2ND BLOOM THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY! I never had tanks in the past that had diatoms last this long... I know they are still around because something is leaching silicates. There are some things that I suspect like food or containers I use that may be contributing to this issue I am having:

Food and feeding schedule:
1. Four medium size carnivore hikari pellets 2 times a week - inverts in tank (mainly for serpent star and nasarius snails)
2. Seven small pieces of hikari probiotic pellets 4 times a week - 1 dottyback

Water source:
I use 4 stage BRS RODI water that I got new a month ago. Prior to that I was buying water at my lfs, and I trust their water considering they grow and harvest a ton of sps. I store fresh and salt water in the usual 5 gallon bottles we buy at fish stores. I siphon fresh water into Fiji water bottles for top offs so that I don't have to carry a heavy 5 gallon bottle to pour into my tank. I wonder if the Fiji water bottles im using for top offs are leaching silicate from the plastic.
*I do bi-weekly 40% water change.

Salt mix:
Red sea coral pro when I was buying water from the lfs. Using IO crystals since I started to mix my own water a month ago.


Filtration:
1. Chemipure elite and change it out every 2 months.
2. Filter pads (mechanical filtration) that I switch out every two weeks.

Livestock:
My one sps milipora, crocea clam, and other lps are growing very well though. All corals and clam are growing like weeds considering I added them only 3-4 months ago. I actually don't have much livestock in my tank.
* i did make a huge mistake by adding a scooter blenny and he ended up eating my entire population of copepods. Prior to the dragonet addition, my tank was infested with copepods.
The scooter blenny was added in early December and starved to death by Feb 2nd. Around the time the blenny was still alive, I started to see some signs of diatoms. I thought that may have been because I was feeding him mysis everyday which is more than my usual feeding schedule. More feedings.. more nitrates, phosphates, etc. But I also believe he ate my entire population of copepods which also contributed to the diatom bloom.
It has been 2 months now since the dragonet passed away. This weekend, I have seeded my tank with a copepod mix I bought at my lfs to restart the population. I hope this helps in a month or so.

Flow:
1 Hygeer wave maker - makes the flow very turbulent.

Atmosphere:
Could it be the air in my apartment is bad???? I do have an air purifier near my tank...

Am I being impatient? Maybe 9 months is too soon to expect diatoms to go away... In the distant past had a 25 and 12 gallon nanos, one 40 gallon sps/lps mixed tank, and one 80 gallon sps dominant tank. I never had diatoms last this long in any of them...

Just need to determine what could the silicate source be coming from...

thanks in advance

 

[Snowxcross]

Well I would have said your ro water, but not the case although you can still get silicates. Just feed some phyto to the pods, it took about a month for me to see thousands of them. They'll help for sure, you could run some rowaphos in a reactor, what's your nitrate and phosphate levels? How bad is it? Send a pic or two.

 

[Dan_P]

Hey fellas,

I need help in determining what may be feeding diatoms in my 10 gallon tank. It is officially 9 months old now... i had a diatom bloom two months into setting up my tank but went away on the 3rd month mark. I HAVE 2ND BLOOM THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY! I never had tanks in the past that had diatoms last this long... I know they are still around because something is leaching silicates. There are some things that I suspect like food or containers I use that may be contributing to this issue I am having:

Food and feeding schedule:
1. Four medium size carnivore hikari pellets 2 times a week - inverts in tank (mainly for serpent star and nasarius snails)
2. Seven small pieces of hikari probiotic pellets 4 times a week - 1 dottyback

Water source:
I use 4 stage BRS RODI water that I got new a month ago. Prior to that I was buying water at my lfs, and I trust their water considering they grow and harvest a ton of sps. I store fresh and salt water in the usual 5 gallon bottles we buy at fish stores. I siphon fresh water into Fiji water bottles for top offs so that I don't have to carry a heavy 5 gallon bottle to pour into my tank. I wonder if the Fiji water bottles im using for top offs are leaching silicate from the plastic.
*I do bi-weekly 40% water change.

Salt mix:
Red sea coral pro when I was buying water from the lfs. Using IO crystals since I started to mix my own water a month ago.


Filtration:
1. Chemipure elite and change it out every 2 months.
2. Filter pads (mechanical filtration) that I switch out every two weeks.

Livestock:
My one sps milipora, crocea clam, and other lps are growing very well though. All corals and clam are growing like weeds considering I added them only 3-4 months ago. I actually don't have much livestock in my tank.
* i did make a huge mistake by adding a scooter blenny and he ended up eating my entire population of copepods. Prior to the dragonet addition, my tank was infested with copepods.
The scooter blenny was added in early December and starved to death by Feb 2nd. Around the time the blenny was still alive, I started to see some signs of diatoms. I thought that may have been because I was feeding him mysis everyday which is more than my usual feeding schedule. More feedings.. more nitrates, phosphates, etc. But I also believe he ate my entire population of copepods which also contributed to the diatom bloom.
It has been 2 months now since the dragonet passed away. This weekend, I have seeded my tank with a copepod mix I bought at my lfs to restart the population. I hope this helps in a month or so.

Flow:
1 Hygeer wave maker - makes the flow very turbulent.

Atmosphere:
Could it be the air in my apartment is bad???? I do have an air purifier near my tank...

Am I being impatient? Maybe 9 months is too soon to expect diatoms to go away... In the distant past had a 25 and 12 gallon nanos, one 40 gallon sps/lps mixed tank, and one 80 gallon sps dominant tank. I never had diatoms last this long in any of them...

Just need to determine what could the silicate source be coming from...

thanks in advance

Just wondering how you identified the disturbing growth as diatoms. Microscope ID?

 

[mjw011689]

What are your nitrates and phosphates? Are you sure it’s diatoms and not dinos? Did you start the tank with dry rock and sand?

 

[TopClamSkoo]

phosphates - 1
Nitrates - 10-12
these were the numbers last week. Checking my log on my notepad on phone

I dont have a microscope so I cant tell for 100% sure. I feel strongly that it is diatoms because they started to show up after the blenny was added and that was when i started to feed the tank like crazy. They never went away after that...
Cant be dinos because how could they show up if i start feeding like crazy back in january? Dont they come around when there are lack of nutrients?

Pictures will come later tonight. Im in the office

 

[TopClamSkoo]

What are your nitrates and phosphates? Are you sure it’s diatoms and not dinos? Did you start the tank with dry rock and sand?

i started with 9 pounds of austrialian live rock. and put in caribsea fiji pink sand

 

[mjw011689]

Dinos typically come on when the phosphates bottom out, which yours are far from doing. So I’d agree probably not dino. That said, 1.0 is really high for phosphate. You should be in the 0.01-0.03 range for the most part, so I suspect you’re getting algae from too many phosphates. On days that I feed frozen food I get an upward swing of about 0.05 phosphates, so it’s possible if you’re feeding frozen daily it’s coming from that.

I’d probably try running something to reduce the phosphate to a normal level and re-evaluate from there. Also how long do you have your lights on, and do you run heavy in the white spectrum? That can also cause algae, but typically only as a result of a nutrient imbalance (which you have).

 

[TopClamSkoo]

Dinos typically come on when the phosphates bottom out, which yours are far from doing. So I’d agree probably not dino. That said, 1.0 is really high for phosphate. You should be in the 0.01-0.03 range for the most part, so I suspect you’re getting algae from too many phosphates. On days that I feed frozen food I get an upward swing of about 0.05 phosphates, so it’s possible if you’re feeding frozen daily it’s coming from that.

I’d probably try running something to reduce the phosphate to a normal level and re-evaluate from there. Also how long do you have your lights on, and do you run heavy in the white spectrum? That can also cause algae, but typically only as a result of a nutrient imbalance (which you have).

awwww crap... yeah makes sense.... I do run pretty heavy on the whites for 4 hours out of 10 for my lights. Kessil a160we.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I think what I'll do is lower the photo period for like 9 and run blues the whole time. I think maybe i should switch out the chemipure elite every month instead of 2 months...
I'm actually not feeding frozen foods everyday anymore. just pellets sparingly to my dottyback since my scooter blenny died 2 months ago.
ill report back in a month or so for results.

Thanks a lot!

 

[sixty_reefer]

Have you got any pictures of the issue at hand? Ideally a microscope image would be beneficial to a more precise indication although some times we can have good indications on certain species by looking at the biofilm. I wouldn’t rule out dinoflagellates just yet as they also bloom under high nitrates and phosphates

 

[Troylee]

It does sound like Dino’s unfortunately and is a common trend now days… I had high no3 and po4 and I got 2 different strains

 

[TopClamSkoo]

Have you got any pictures of the issue at hand? Ideally a microscope image would be beneficial to a more precise indication although some times we can have good indications on certain species by looking at the biofilm. I wouldn’t rule out dinoflagellates just yet as they also bloom under high nitrates and phosphates

yeah im in the office so i wont be able to take a pic until tonight

 

[Lavey29]

Frozen food is not causing phosphate increase. It's the pellet food and coral additives that spike phosphate. Get an ICP done to check for silicates. I had diatoms issues and discovered my RODI was not taking them out sufficiently so I added a spectrapure silicate buster DI filter and now have 0 silicates in my RODI but they can still get in from other sources like your salt mix.

 

[TopClamSkoo]

It does sound like Dino’s unfortunately and is a common trend now days… I had high no3 and po4 and I got 2 different strains

how did u beat it? what was your method? i know there are so many out there but just want to know ppls opinions..

 

[TopClamSkoo]

Frozen food is not causing phosphate increase. It's the pellet food and coral additives that spike phosphate. Get an ICP done to check for silicates. I had diatoms issues and discovered my RODI was not taking them out sufficiently so I added a spectrapure silicate buster DI filter and now have 0 silicates in my RODI but they can still get in from other sources like your salt mix.

wow... so should i stop feeding pellets and go back to frozen?

 

[Troylee]

how did u beat it? what was your method? i know there are so many out there but just want to know ppls opinions..

A few months of diy coral snow, turkey baster, siphoning and a uv with h202 dosing and mb7… also turned my white lights off.. I threw the kitchen sink at them and got it to where it was manageable and then added some live rock from a different tank to put the nail in the coffin! It sucked! But finally worked..

 

[Lavey29]

wow... so should i stop feeding pellets and go back to frozen?

If you have elevated phosphate then yes. Frozen can bump nitrates though so there is a trade off but if you feed appropriately every balances. I don't feed pellets due to my elevated phosphate level.

 

[TopClamSkoo]

A few months of diy coral snow, turkey baster, siphoning and a uv with h202 dosing and mb7… also turned my white lights off.. I threw the kitchen sink at them and got it to where it was manageable and then added some live rock from a different tank to put the nail in the coffin! It sucked! But finally worked..

wow.... dang... sounds like a lot patience and work.
I really am starting to miss my other tanks. I NEVER HAD TO DEAL WITH DIATOMS/DINOS AFTER A FEW MONTHS OF SETTING UP.

 

[TopClamSkoo]

If you have elevated phosphate then yes. Frozen can bump nitrates though so there is a trade off but if you feed appropriately every balances. I don't feed pellets due to my elevated phosphate level.

NO way! i thought pellets would be better because of the size of food! Plus I can see my fish consuming it with zero leftovers!
So just because the fish consumes it doesnt mean the phosphate levels in pellets go away?? That may sound like a stupid question... i assume no. If phosphate levels in pellets are high and its consumed... digestion in the fish wont necessarily break down the phosphate when the fish poos.
Is my educated guess correct? dang! maybe ive been doing this all wrong! Maybe it's the pellets ive been feeding my fish! Before the diatoms or dinos came to be... i was feeding my fish frozen. I thought maybe it was because i was feeding them a lot more than usual because of the new addition (dragonet). hmmm..... once the dragonet died... there were some dinos/diatoms... but then i immediately switched over to pellets thinking the frozen foods were causing the algae bloom... but if i think about it, the algae bloom is way worse now compared to when using frozen food in the past.

 

[Lavey29]

NO way! i thought pellets would be better because of the size of food! Plus I can see my fish consuming it with zero leftovers!
So just because the fish consumes it doesnt mean the phosphate levels in pellets go away?? That may sound like a stupid question... i assume no. If phosphate levels in pellets are high and its consumed... digestion in the fish wont necessarily break down the phosphate when the fish poos.
Is my educated guess correct? dang! maybe ive been doing this all wrong! Maybe it's the pellets ive been feeding my fish! Before the diatoms or dinos came to be... i was feeding my fish frozen. I thought maybe it was because i was feeding them a lot more than usual because of the new addition (dragonet). hmmm..... once the dragonet died... there were some dinos/diatoms... but then i immediately switched over to pellets thinking the frozen foods were causing the algae bloom... but if i think about it, the algae bloom is way worse now compared to when using frozen food in the past.

From the internet...

There can be several culprits that increase phosphates in reef aquarium, but the biggest offender could be what you are feeding your tank. Phosphates, in particulate Polyphosphates, are often used as a preservative for foods, especially for flake, pelleted and ground (coral foods) products.

 

[TopClamSkoo]

Well as promised. Here are the pics.
Sorry this is the best my phone can do.