Diagnosis for my Gem Tang

[zatchyvsalt]

Hello,

I have a Gem tang who seems to have gotten some type of illness. From what I can see the top and bottom fins seem to be frayed with almost puncture like damage, and rips and tears. Also on his pectoral fin there is a white discoloration. I have also noticed small haze in both his eyes. For the most part he is acting normal and eating good. I was thinking fin rot but I’m no expert.

I do have ich and black ich in my tank that my blue hippo is currently battling but it’s gotten better over the past few days. I thought maybe this was it but I’m not sure.

Right now I am treating the tank (180 gallons) with Prazipro for the black ich.

Parameters for my tank are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10
Phosphate: .11
PH: 7.8

Any info for diagnosis and treatment would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sc50964]

I think he has velvet. Seeing white dots everywhere & that includes his tail.

How do you know you got flukes?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

How long has the fish been exhibiting these symptoms? Is it breathing rapidly? Eating aggressively? Swimming as normal?

This does not look like velvet to me.

 

[zatchyvsalt]

How long has the fish been exhibiting these symptoms? Is it breathing rapidly? Eating aggressively? Swimming as normal?

This does not look like velvet to me.

The white discoloration has been there for about a week and a half, the fin tears about 3-5 days. Haze in the eye since yesterday. His swimming seems to be normal and eats the same as he did prior. I didn’t think it was velvet either

 

[Pickle_soup]

The film on the eyes suggests a bacterial infection. If you didn't introduce anything new to the tank, velvet wouldn't just pop up on its own and you would definitely start seeing it on other fish soon after. It could be a secondary infection from ich. How serious is your ich outbreak?

 

[MnFish1]

To me, the fish looks thin for a start. How long have you had it, how do you know there is black ich and ich 'in your tank'? Any other symptoms of bullying?

I'm assuming that you did not QT the fish?

To me there is diffuse damage to the fins (as you said), the eye issues and also the fins seem to have a more heavy mucus. Of course with Gem tangs it's always hard because of their natural coloration.

I'm also assuming that you do not want to treat the gem tang and the other fish, etc in a hospital tank.

You could try something like Ruby Rally Pro, in your again - assuming you don't want to remove the fish and treat seperately. This contains an antibacterial as well as anti parasite treatments. You could also use praziquantel. The lack of other symptoms lead me against praziquantel 'first'. Hope this helps.

Any more information you could provide would be helpful - the age of the tank, the fish, any other inhabitants?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello,

I have a Gem tang who seems to have gotten some type of illness. From what I can see the top and bottom fins seem to be frayed with almost puncture like damage, and rips and tears. Also on his pectoral fin there is a white discoloration. I have also noticed small haze in both his eyes. For the most part he is acting normal and eating good. I was thinking fin rot but I’m no expert.

I do have ich and black ich in my tank that my blue hippo is currently battling but it’s gotten better over the past few days. I thought maybe this was it but I’m not sure.

Right now I am treating the tank (180 gallons) with Prazipro for the black ich.

Parameters for my tank are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10
Phosphate: .11
PH: 7.8

Any info for diagnosis and treatment would be greatly appreciated.

Dots too big to be velvet and I believe ich. In addition, the eyes have consistent dots and not bacterial as other signs would be associated with bacterial. Can ich and flukes occur at the same time - Yes. This is a difficult fish to diagnose with protozoans as it has so many dots already. With ich, you see elevated breathing heavily, flashing, scratching on the sand or rocks and head twitching.
For both ich and velvet, best treatment is Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[zatchyvsalt]

To me, the fish looks thin for a start. How long have you had it, how do you know there is black ich and ich 'in your tank'? Any other symptoms of bullying?

I'm assuming that you did not QT the fish?

To me there is diffuse damage to the fins (as you said), the eye issues and also the fins seem to have a more heavy mucus. Of course with Gem tangs it's always hard because of their natural coloration.

I'm also assuming that you do not want to treat the gem tang and the other fish, etc in a hospital tank.

You could try something like Ruby Rally Pro, in your again - assuming you don't want to remove the fish and treat seperately. This contains an antibacterial as well as anti parasite treatments. You could also use praziquantel. The lack of other symptoms lead me against praziquantel 'first'. Hope this helps.

Any more information you could provide would be helpful - the age of the tank, the fish, any other inhabitants?

 

[Pickle_soup]

Dots too big to be velvet and I believe ich. In addition, the eyes have consistent dots and not bacterial as other signs would be associated with bacterial. Can ich and flukes occur at the same time - Yes. This is a difficult fish to diagnose with protozoans as it has so many dots already. With ich, you see elevated breathing heavily, flashing, scratching on the sand or rocks and head twitching.
For both ich and velvet, best treatment is Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

For learning purposes, what would you see with bacterial that's not pictured?

 

[zatchyvsalt]

I wouldn’t say he is thin. Might be from the photos but he definitely has some meet on him.

He’s been in the tank about 2 months. I unfortunately did not quarantine any fish. I assumed black ich because my hippo tang has black spots over his body that resemble black ich.

The Gem is very much the tank boss and is not bothered by anyone. He is the biggest in the tank as well

I am very much leaning towards a hospital tang and having this tank go fallow for 76 days.

In the tank:
1 Gem
1 blue throat
1 hippo
2 clown
4 fire goby
4 cardinals
1 social wrasse
1 lawn mower
1 BTA
5 flower nems
Hermits and snails
1 skunk shrimp

Tank is 10 months from initial setup.

 

[sc50964]

For learning purposes, what would you see with bacterial that's not pictured?

Usually external lesion

 

[zatchyvsalt]

Dots too big to be velvet and I believe ich. In addition, the eyes have consistent dots and not bacterial as other signs would be associated with bacterial. Can ich and flukes occur at the same time - Yes. This is a difficult fish to diagnose with protozoans as it has so many dots already. With ich, you see elevated breathing heavily, flashing, scratching on the sand or rocks and head twitching.
For both ich and velvet, best treatment is Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

Do you think it’s ich?

 

[vetteguy53081]

For learning purposes, what would you see with bacterial that's not pictured?

Diagnosing bacterial diseases and causatives are not always an easy thing to do as they occur from many causes and combination of issues both internal and on surface of fish's skin surface.
Some are tail rot, fin rot, loss of appetite, open sores, listless behavior, eyes bulged with grey film as examples.
Ive noticed you chiming in and understandably trying to offer help, but if you are still learning and unsure, please allow the medic team who is here to diagnose and recommend proper protocols as guessing never ends well. It is however appreciated as we cant be on here 24/7 although a couple of us from the team seem to be LOL

 

[vetteguy53081]

Do you think it’s ich?

Ich is what jumps out at me and having a whole big gang of tangs, they seem to get a deceiving group of dots opposed to many other fish out there and at times even mucus cones and skin irritations exclusively
As mentioned, even if it were velvet, the same treatment regimen applies

 

[zatchyvsalt]

Ich is what jumps out at me and having a whole big gang of tangs, they seem to get a deceiving group of dots opposed to many other fish out there and at times even mucus cones and skin irritations exclusively
As mentioned, even if it were velvet, the same treatment regimen applies

I was thinking of doing this. I will buy a 40 gallon breeder transfer all my live rocks and inverts to it and transfer 40 gallons of my water into that tank set up the lighting on the forty gallon breeder for the corals.

Now my main display will only be the fish and sand and I will copper treat the main display and leave the rock fallow for 76 days.

Im upgrading to 180 gallon at the end of year so I’m not too concern about my main display. I want to minimize the stress on my fish to move to new tank

Will add pvc pipe for hiding spaces

What do you think of that?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was thinking of doing this. I will buy a 40 gallon breeder transfer all my live rocks and inverts to it and transfer 40 gallons of my water into that tank set up the lighting on the forty gallon breeder for the corals.

Now my main display will only be the fish and sand and I will copper treat the main display and leave the rock fallow for 76 days.

Im upgrading to 180 gallon at the end of year so I’m not too concern about my main display. I want to minimize the stress on my fish to move to new tank

Will add pvc pipe for hiding spaces

What do you think of that?

Actually its the opposite. You dont want to copper treat the fish in display tank as you will never be able to re-introduce inverts and coral into display as there will be traces of copper which will harm them and even kill them .
Leave coral and inverts in display tank and treat the fish in a quarantine/hospital tank for the full 30 days mentioned and leave display tank without fish for 4-6 week. 76 days is an old ule while you can extend to 76 days. If you raise tank temp in display to 81 deg, it will shorten the life cycle of any parasites present

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello,

I have a Gem tang who seems to have gotten some type of illness. From what I can see the top and bottom fins seem to be frayed with almost puncture like damage, and rips and tears. Also on his pectoral fin there is a white discoloration. I have also noticed small haze in both his eyes. For the most part he is acting normal and eating good. I was thinking fin rot but I’m no expert.

I do have ich and black ich in my tank that my blue hippo is currently battling but it’s gotten better over the past few days. I thought maybe this was it but I’m not sure.

Right now I am treating the tank (180 gallons) with Prazipro for the black ich.

Parameters for my tank are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10
Phosphate: .11
PH: 7.8

Any info for diagnosis and treatment would be greatly appreciated.

Velvet (Amyloodinium) will have rapid breathing as the primary, and sometimes only symptom, followed soon by death. I would rule that out here.

The fish has all the earmarks of a Neobendenia fluke infection. However, there is one image where I can see distinct white spots on its tail, and that looks like ich. It is possible for fish to have a combination of both infections. If you didn't have invertebrates in there, you could put the fish under hyposalinity and deal with both the flukes and the ich at the same time.

How long ago did you dose the Prazipro? Was it a full dose?

Jay

 

[zatchyvsalt]

Actually its the opposite. You dont want to copper treat the fish in display tank as you will never be able to re-introduce inverts and coral into display as there will be traces of copper which will harm them and even kill them .
Leave coral and inverts in display tank and treat the fish in a quarantine/hospital tank for the full 30 days mentioned and leave display tank without fish for 4-6 week. 76 days is an old ule while you can extend to 76 days. If you raise tank temp in display to 81 deg, it will shorten the life cycle of any parasites present

Velvet (Amyloodinium) will have rapid breathing as the primary, and sometimes only symptom, followed soon by death. I would rule that out here.

The fish has all the earmarks of a Neobendenia fluke infection. However, there is one image where I can see distinct white spots on its tail, and that looks like ich. It is possible for fish to have a combination of both infections. If you didn't have invertebrates in there, you could put the fish under hyposalinity and deal with both the flukes and the ich at the same time.

How long ago did you dose the Prazipro? Was it a full dose?

Jay

Full dose yesterday

 

[vetteguy53081]

Full dose yesterday

It takes a couple of days for it to start to take effect and recommended for prazi application is to apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

 

[zatchyvsalt]

So essentially do initial dosage. Then wait 8 days and do a water change and another dosage?

What do you recommend for the ich as a temp solution? I don’t want to build a hospital tank when I have a new main display tank coming in. Should I quarantine the gem tang separately, copper treat him or do you recommend a different product after pratziprol treatment?