Derbesia?

[ReefDreamz]

Hi! I'm struggling with some type of GHA. Complicating this is the fact that I cannot keep Astrea, Trochus, or Turbo snails alive. I add them and within 2 to 3 weeks they become lethargic, stop moving, stay in one spot for a few days and eventually fall over, shrivel up and die. I also added a Dolabella Sea Hare. I drip acclimated it for 3 hours. It lived for 3 weeks then died. It didn't eat any of the GHA. It would just glide right over and ignore it. It seemed totally healthy until it died. My tangs pick at the rocks and sand all day but they spit this algae out. I've tried aggressively syphoning this stuff out and scrubbing the rocks with a toothbrush but I'm not making any headway probably because my CUC won't eat this stuff, or they do eat it then die.

None of the common reasons why snails die seems to applies here.

I don't have dinos.
I don't have really high Mg (1450ish).
They don't have pyramid snails on them.
There is plenty of this algae to eat.
I have a few scarlet hermits but the snails aren't being eaten, they die on their own.
I have seen some of my Bumble bee snails eating the dead snails but it's only after they're so weak they fall over.

Whatever is killing the Astrea, Trochus and Turbos doesn't seem to affect the bumble bees, nerites, and ceriths or my conchs.

I'm wondering if I have some uncommon kind of hair algae that's toxic to herbivorous snails.

Does this look like common GHA? Doing some Googling I think it looks like Derbesia under the microscope but doesn't look like it in the tank.

Should I just dose fluconazole?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi! I'm struggling with some type of GHA. Complicating this is the fact that I cannot keep Astrea, Trochus, or Turbo snails alive. I add them and within 2 to 3 weeks they become lethargic, stop moving, stay in one spot for a few days and eventually fall over, shrivel up and die. I also added a Dolabella Sea Hare. I drip acclimated it for 3 hours. It lived for 3 weeks then died. It didn't eat any of the GHA. It would just glide right over and ignore it. It seemed totally healthy until it died. My tangs pick at the rocks and sand all day but they spit this algae out. I've tried aggressively syphoning this stuff out and scrubbing the rocks with a toothbrush but I'm not making any headway probably because my CUC won't eat this stuff, or they do eat it then die.

None of the common reasons why snails die seems to applies here.

I don't have dinos.
I don't have really high Mg (1450ish).
They don't have pyramid snails on them.
There is plenty of this algae to eat.
I have a few scarlet hermits but the snails aren't being eaten, they die on their own.
I have seen some of my Bumble bee snails eating the dead snails but it's only after they're so weak they fall over.

Whatever is killing the Astrea, Trochus and Turbos doesn't seem to affect the bumble bees, nerites, and ceriths or my conchs.

I'm wondering if I have some uncommon kind of hair algae that's toxic to herbivorous snails.

Does this look like common GHA? Doing some Googling I think it looks like Derbesia under the microscope but doesn't look like it in the tank.

Should I just dose fluconazole?

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While it looks like derbesia, I believe it’s bryopsis. Both of these are challenging for removal because of their root systems. To get rid of bryopsis and even derbesia- you have to get rid of all the roots. As long as there are roots it will keep coming back.
Best is to place rock in a container of tank water and pull all you can by hand and remove the rest with a dental pick or small crochet needle
Return to tank and add some chiton snails, pitho crabs and large astrea snails to maintain control

 

[ReefDreamz]

While it looks like derbesia, I believe it’s bryopsis. Both of these are challenging for removal because of their root systems. To get rid of bryopsis and even derbesia- you have to get rid of all the roots. As long as there are roots it will keep coming back.
Best is to place rock in a container of tank water and pull all you can by hand and remove the rest with a dental pick or small crochet needle
Return to tank and add some chiton snails, pitho crabs and large astrea snails to maintain control

Why do you think it's bryopsis. It doesn't look like bryopsis under the microscope or in the tank. I have some bryopsis in other places in my tank but the pictures are of the more GHA looking algae not the bryopsis. Just curious what makes you think it's bryopsis in the pictures. As for taking out the rocks they are all glued and cemented together into one massive structure with many corals also glued to them so that is not an option. My main concern though is the snail death. Do you have any idea why I can't keep Astrea or Trochus snails alive?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Why do you think it's bryopsis. It doesn't look like bryopsis under the microscope or in the tank. I have some bryopsis in other places in my tank but the pictures are of the more GHA looking algae not the bryopsis. Just curious what makes you think it's bryopsis in the pictures. As for taking out the rocks they are all glued and cemented together into one massive structure with many corals also glued to them so that is not an option. My main concern though is the snail death. Do you have any idea why I can't keep Astrea or Trochus snails alive?

Im seeing a distant pic and looking on a phone screen looked thicker, but I am on my PC unit and correcting myself- It looks clearly like GHA and cyano bloom. This will be less of a pain to tackle.
Pull as much as you can by hand and reduce white light intensity and number of hours of white lighting and add some snails such as :
Astrea
cerith
turbo grazer
trochus

A Pencil urchin

8-10 Caribbean blue leg hermits

Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ? If RODI - are cartridges becomming expired?
What is your phosphate level?
Is tank at or near a window?

For cyano,
Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not offer output at the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days which will address your Gha also. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure blue which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

 

[ReefDreamz]

Im seeing a distant pic and looking on a phone screen looked thicker, but I am on my PC unit and correcting myself- It looks clearly like GHA and cyano bloom. This will be less of a pain to tackle.
Pull as much as you can by hand and reduce white light intensity and number of hours of white lighting and add some snails such as :
Astrea
cerith
turbo grazer
trochus

A Pencil urchin

8-10 Caribbean blue leg hermits

Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ? If RODI - are cartridges becomming expired?
What is your phosphate level?
Is tank at or near a window?

For cyano,
Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not offer output at the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days which will address your Gha also. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure blue which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

I'm not seeing any cyano in my system. What are you seeing in the pictures that looks like cyano?

You said to add snails but the main point of my post is that all my snails are dying. This is what I'm asking for help about. I'm trying to figure out what's killing my snails and if it could be the type of GHA I have. Help with the algae is appreciated but I'm more interested in knowledge about uncommon reasons why snails might be dying (not dinos, magnesium, or predation).

I run 100% blue lights, no white. Using RODI water. My PO4 level is 0.06 which is clearly indicated on the ICP test results included in my original post.

Not trying to be argumentative and I do appreciate you replying and your knowledge and help but your responses feel as if they are cut and pasted template type responses and read as if you did not read my post because they don't address the nuances of the questions I'm asking.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm not seeing any cyano in my system. What are you seeing in the pictures that looks like cyano?

You said to add snails but the main point of my post is that all my snails are dying. This is what I'm asking for help about. I'm trying to figure out what's killing my snails and if it could be the type of GHA I have. Help with the algae is appreciated but I'm more interested in knowledge about uncommon reasons why snails might be dying (not dinos, magnesium, or predation).

I run 100% blue lights, no white. Using RODI water. My PO4 level is 0.06 which is clearly indicated on the ICP test results included in my original post.

Not trying to be argumentative and I do appreciate you replying and your knowledge and help but your responses feel as if they are cut and pasted template type responses and read as if you did not read my post because they don't address the nuances of the questions I'm asking.

Opps forgot about snails. There is a green slime film on sand surface which appears to be cyano
Regarding snails-
Acclimation is very important and additionally calcium levels of no less than 380.
Also if any hermit crabs , they are opportunistic hunters of snails at night.
High nitrates and if it is indeed cyano, your po4 and no3 may be elevated.
Changes in temperature and ph
High magnesium level
Presence of copper even at Low level