Deciding on controller: What do you hate most about Apex, GHL, and HYDROS?

[n2585722]

Are they though? Has anyone opened them and dissected the parts? A lot of knockoffs do a great job at looking exactly like the “real thing” but use way cheaper components inside.

They have said they are made by someone else. They also said they tested dozens of them before deciding on which one to use. The prices on the ones like theirs is not usually that much less than buying the Hydros branded one. The hydros comes with a mounting bracket also. Also you get the firmware that has been tested with the Hydros when you buy the Hydros. I cannot see any reason to buy the others unless you need one in a hurray and it would be available in a pinch.

 

[kenchilada]

It seems like its other aquarium controllers that have WiFi problems - not only Profilux 4 and for the book - I have no problems with GHL software.

Sincerely Lasse

LOL. I have no problem with horses but they’re not an ideal vehicle and I don’t drive one to work.

GHL has a LOT of room for improvement in the software department. Any good UX consultant would place it dead last amongst the products in this thread (source: I work for a design company). They are indefensible.

 

[FishyFishFish]

I have a beta unit of the XP8 to test and I like it. You are correct you will need at least one other control unit with inputs if you want to control any outputs other than using timers. I have 8 control units including that one. I currently have it powering my Return, skimmer, two heaters and several power pack for my MP10's and lighting. If you already have a Hydros control unit it is a good mate since you can power dosing pumps also. Right now my dosing pumps are not near the tank so I would need another one for them but at the moment I use the drive ports to do that. I will have to wait until they are available like everyone else to get another one. They do plan on offering packages witch include a control unit and the XP8 instead of the wifi power bar.

What would be better for me is if they sold a package with a controller and a simple wired power bar, or added a couple of sense ports to the XP8 instead.

Whilst a package with a controller and XP8 has advantages, it could be considered overkill for a simple system, as a package like that effectively includes 2 controllers.

Based on the retail costs, a package with a control XS (or similar) and a XP8 instead of the Wi-Fi power strip, is likely to cost around $430, which is quite a lot more than the $200 for the XS starter package which effectively does the same thing. I would pay a premium for a wired power bar, but not another $230.

 

[n2585722]

What would be better for me is if they sold a package with a controller and a simple wired power bar, or added a couple of sense ports to the XP8 instead.

Whilst a package with a controller and XP8 has advantages, it could be considered overkill for a simple system, as a package like that effectively includes 2 controllers.

Based on the retail costs, a package with a control XS (or similar) and a XP8 instead of the Wi-Fi power strip, is likely to cost around $430, which is quite a lot more than the $200 for the XS starter package which effectively does the same thing. I would pay a premium for a wired power bar, but not another $230.

Unfortunatly a wired power bar without the added controller would still cost you more than $230 if it was designed for hooking to the Hydros since all the R&D would have to come from a small group buying it. Only someone with the Hydros is going to buy one and not all that have the hydros will do that. The wifi bars were an already existing unit that are sold by the millions since there is a larger group of people that are buying smart outlets and power bars than aquarium controllers. Aquarium controllers has a limited market.

 

[rtparty]

Are they though? Has anyone opened them and dissected the parts? A lot of knockoffs do a great job at looking exactly like the “real thing” but use way cheaper components inside.

Yes. They have been taken apart and CoralVue even said they were the same. They went through a lot of them to test quality and consistency.

The Hydros version uses their own firmware though

 

[rtparty]

Ah but you’re running the older apex then, not the 2016 head and eb832 right? The old units were rock solid. And outlast the “orange” stuff easily.

No. I run the Apex ELMO that BRS released 2 or so years ago. I paired it up with the EB8 that I had running for over 3 years on my other tank and that EB8 was 2 years old when I bought it used. I ran an Apex Jr for close to 5 years on my one tank before donating it to a classroom build.

I eventually moved all my Apex gear to my main tank when I got the Hydros.

I won't run the EB832. They're a piece of junk for sure. My father-in-law is an electrical engineer by trade and designs public transit systems. Electric trains, buses, etc...I found a teardown of the EB832 and showed it to him. He laughed at it and said that's kindergarten engineering especially for a system critical item like a power bar.

This is where I hope BRS makes some serious changes. Upgrade the Apex hardware, come out with some updated designs, and they take ever more of a lead in the controller game IMO

 

[n2585722]

Correct. They are just rebranded power bars you can find on Amazon and Ali. Nothing wrong with that. Many items in our hobby are off the shelf, rebranded items from another industry.

The issue is CoralVue being thoroughly convinced that none of them are ever bad.

I have three of them but I've never set one up. One of mine that has been running since day 1 is worse than the other yet they are in the exact same cabinet next to each other.

So if we pretend it is indeed my wifi, why don't both disconnect at the same time? What would be causing my network to constantly boot one more than the other? How could I ever trust anything critical to run on them?

Maybe I open the third, place it somewhere else and let it run. See if it has the same issues? I may do that if I could find a compelling enough reason to stick with Hydros long term. It would be a much larger investment to go all Hydros and ditch Apex at this point.

You can alway do a replace with the one you are having the most issues with and put it is place of that one. To replace click on the wifi strip in question and you should get a screen similar to the screenshot below. Click the replace to start. You will need to have the other wifi strip ready to go and go through the paring but it will replace the new one for the old one in all the setups. If you still have issue then it is something else besides the wifi strip. Odds of more than one having the same issue is not likely.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

No. I run the Apex ELMO that BRS released 2 or so years ago. I paired it up with the EB8 that I had running for over 3 years on my other tank and that EB8 was 2 years old when I bought it used. I ran an Apex Jr for close to 5 years on my one tank before donating it to a classroom build.

I eventually moved all my Apex gear to my main tank when I got the Hydros.

I won't run the EB832. They're a piece of junk for sure. My father-in-law is an electrical engineer by trade and designs public transit systems. Electric trains, buses, etc...I found a teardown of the EB832 and showed it to him. He laughed at it and said that's kindergarten engineering especially for a system critical item like a power bar.

This is where I hope BRS makes some serious changes. Upgrade the Apex hardware, come out with some updated designs, and they take ever more of a lead in the controller game IMO

100% with you!! The old EB8s lasted forever. I loved the old apex reliability.

 

[rtparty]

100% with you!! The old EB8s lasted forever. I loved the old apex reliability.

Thankfully they still make the EB8 and they work with the current Apex.

 

[csund]

O

Oh, I've seen plenty of the Straton. I have 6 over my tank.. Honestly, the build quality of the Straton and my RE gear are what drove me to choose GHL. Germany just makes better stuff than the rest of the world.. besides maybe Japan

If you can tie your shoes you can understand your GHL

 

[FishyFishFish]

Unfortunatly a wired power bar without the added controller would still cost you more than $230 if it was designed for hooking to the Hydros since all the R&D would have to come from a small group buying it. Only someone with the Hydros is going to buy one and not all that have the hydros will do that. The wifi bars were an already existing unit that are sold by the millions since there is a larger group of people that are buying smart outlets and power bars than aquarium controllers. Aquarium controllers has a limited market.

Wired power bar prices:

Hydros XP8 - $279.99

GHL 6EPAB - $250.90
GHL STDL 4-4 - $131.90
Neptune EB832 - $289.95
Neptune EB4 - $119.95

The XP8 is more expensive than anything else other than the EB832; it is even more expensive than the GHL digital power bar Look at the STDL 4-4 and EB4 in comparison - it can be done!!

I know that the Hydros does have more functionality with the inbuilt controller but with no sense or probe ports it’s usually is significantly restricted.

I still think they could have done much better than that with the price (particularly without the R+D off adding a limited-use controller). If they couldn’t, then the addition of a couple of sense ports so that it could truly be used standalone, would have made the cost much easier to justify in my opinion.

 

[FishyFishFish]

If you can tie your shoes you can understand your GHL

But you’ll need to learn to tie broken shoe laces first.

 

[csund]

But you’ll need to learn to tie broken shoe laces first.

I’ve never had a broken GHL. I have had three broken competing controllers though.

 

[n2585722]

I’ve never had a broken GHL. I have had three broken competing controllers though.

Sorry I don't care for German made stuff. For one it is hard as hell to fix when it breaks. They have to do everything the most complicated way possible and backwards to us. I would rather work on Chinese stuff over them. I find Japanese stuff the easiest to work on. Unfortunately there is no US made consumer electronics anymore. I worked on a lot of US made stuff back in the 70's. We even had the Reps for the manufacturer come by every couple of months to see how it was going. They don't do that anymore and haven't in a long time.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

Wired power bar prices:

Hydros XP8 - $279.99

GHL 6EPAB (6 outlets) - $250.90
GHL STDL 4-4 - $131.90
Neptune EB832 - $289.95
Neptune EB4 - $119.95

The XP8 is more expensive than anything else other than the EB832; it is even more expensive than the GHL digital power bar Look at the STDL 4-4 and EB4 in comparison - it can be done!!

I know that the Hydros does have more functionality with the inbuilt controller but with no sense or probe ports it’s usually is significantly restricted.

I still think they could have done much better than that with the price (particularly without the R+D off adding a limited-use controller). If they couldn’t, then the addition of a couple of sense ports so that it could truly be used standalone, would have made the cost much easier to justify in my opinion.

STDL and EB4 are only 4 outlets each. So here is an apples to apples comparison. The benefit of the Xp8 is the controller brain inside. This is about redundancy. None of the other outlets below can offer input, sense, probes etc either. But the xp8 can continue to control your outlets in case a main control unit fails. If a head unit fails on an apex or GHL you have zero control and have fun setting the apex back up from scratch with a new head unit. (Useless backup - ask me how I know!)

Hydros XP8 - $279.99

GHL 6EPAB - $250.90
GHL STDL 4-4 - $263
Neptune EB832 - $289.95
Neptune EB4 - $240

 

[csund]

Sorry I don't care for German made stuff. For one it is hard as hell to fix when it breaks. They have to do everything the most complicated way possible and backwards to us. I would rather work on Chinese stuff over them. I find Japanese stuff the easiest to work on. Unfortunately there is no US made consumer electronics anymore. I worked on a lot of US made stuff back in the 70's. We even had the Reps for the manufacturer come by every couple of months to see how it was going. They don't do that anymore and haven't in a long time.

That’s so cool! I love Japanese products as well!!

 

[n2585722]

That’s so cool! I love Japanese products as well!!

yea, repairing consumer electronics is what I did from 1975 to 1991. I got a job offer from Motorola at that that time that I could not pass up. I got to work on a tool called an Ion Implanter. They were willing to pay a lot more to fix a tool that cost at the time about 2 million dollars than what your regular consumer with a VCR or camcorder would be willing to pay. I think now a new tool runs around 4.5 million dollars. When I retired we had 28 of them and there was 5 technician per shift to work on those tools. Now that I am retired I do go in to a shop and repair consumer electronics but only part time to help out a friend that has a shop.

 

[FishyFishFish]

STDL and EB4 are only 4 outlets each. So here is an apples to apples comparison. The benefit of the Xp8 is the controller brain inside. This is about redundancy. None of the other outlets below can offer input, sense, probes etc either. But the xp8 can continue to control your outlets in case a main control unit fails. If a head unit fails on an apex or GHL you have zero control and have fun setting the apex back up from scratch with a new head unit. (Useless backup - ask me how I know!)

Hydros XP8 - $279.99

GHL 6EPAB - $250.90
GHL STDL 4-4 - $263
Neptune EB832 - $289.95
Neptune EB4 - $240

Each to their own.

I am using a single Hydros XS and I am not looking for more redundancy (although I do understand that some people would like that). I would prefer a wired connection to the power bar, rather then WiFi, but I’m not paying $280 to get it.

Yes, the STDL 4 and EB4 are only 4 outlets but, as someone previously mentioned, a lot of the cost is in the R+D and not the hardware.

Sure, I can’t control the digital GHL powerbar if the head unit fails, but it can be programmed for fall-back states. If the head unit fails then it will default to turn on and off whatever sockets I have pre-programmed. It is cheaper than the XP8 (albeit it only has 6 sockets and not 8) but GHL isn’t particularly know for their low price, which I thought was one of the areas that Hydros was targeting.

 

[csund]

Each to their own.

I am using a single Hydros XS and I am not looking for more redundancy (although I do understand that some people would like that). I would prefer a wired connection to the power bar, rather then WiFi, but I’m not paying $280 to get it.

Yes, the STDL 4 and EB4 are only 4 outlets but, as someone previously mentioned, a lot of the cost is in the R+D and not the hardware.

Sure, I can’t control the digital GHL powerbar if the head unit fails, but it can be programmed for fall-back states. If the head unit fails then it will default to turn on and off whatever sockets I have pre-programmed. It is cheaper than the XP8 (albeit it only has 6 sockets and not 8) but GHL isn’t particularly know for their low price, which I thought was one of the areas that Hydros was targeting.

Thank god you won’t have to worry about the head unit failing unless some sort of end of world event occurs.

 

[FishyFishFish]

Thank god you won’t have to worry about the head unit failing unless some sort of end of world event occurs.

It’s happened to me (indirectly) before with GHL. The power supply failed and the head unit turned off. This actually tripped the circuit breaker in my house and I lost everything in the tank.