Deciding on controller: What do you hate most about Apex, GHL, and HYDROS?

[i_am_mclovin]

Something I'm having trouble as I'm finding conflicting information.

Hydros - if your internet is down can you still control it and your power bars etc?

 

[i_am_mclovin]

I'm currently going down this rabbit whole as well. It seems that all of these units will meet my needs, on the surface and with a few tweaks here and there.

My concern is around the units going offline. In reading the FB groups you would think this happens regularly. Does any of these companies report on such instances? Meaning can I see that a network has what percentage of "up" time versus "down" time (if that makes sense)?

My second concern is around reliability and accuracy of testing. I'd like to get something that would check Alk (at a minimum) several times a day. Again, FB users report wildly inaccurate or breaking units. I want this controller to make my life easier, not an extra task of fixing/calibrating/rebuilding the unit.

For what it's worth I had run several different alk monitors, and found the KH director was the most reliable and seemed to be the most accurate.

 

[n2585722]

Something I'm having trouble as I'm finding conflicting information.

Hydros - if your internet is down can you still control it and your power bars etc?

If it is your internet that is down the controller will continue to work as programmed. You can still turn outputs on and off manually if needed via bluetooth if you are there. You cannot change any of the setup programming without internet as it saves a configuration on the cloud and that would error so bluetooth mode won't allow those changes to happen. Changing setup programming not usually something that I would be doing very often anyway once it is setup. I have very poor internet service and loss of internet has not been that much of a problem for me as far as the controller. It interrupts me from doing other things via the internet. Is there anything else that you have a question on about the Hydros?

 

[FishyFishFish]

Having just bought a new GHL P4 (having not had a controller for several years) I am shocked at how bad the software is.

There are probably ways around this but here are a few things I have found.

1) Dosers that can’t set an automatic schedule between 2 times. e.g. if I want to dose overnight I have to add all of the dosing amounts in manually, I can’t set it to dose 20ml from 10pm to 8pm for example. You can do that over 24 hours, but can’t pick the start/stop time.

2) It assumes that you want to control the heater with the Profilux. You can’t just go in and tell it to turn the heater off if it reaches a certain temp (I.e. a failsafe).

3) It monitors the power through the sockets but there is no programming available to do anything with that info (e.g. turn the pump off if it gets stuck).

4) The reminders section is awful. You can’t tell it to remind you to do something on a certain date. You have to tell it to remind you in X days.

5) When you set up the maintenance schedules and give it a name (e.g. water change) the front screen on the Profilux still calls it ‘Maintenance 1’ so you have to remember which program is which.

6) The power outage monitoring only give you the option to turn things on and off. You can’t set it to, for example, allow the temp to drop 5 degrees before turning on the heater, or cycling the return pump on and off every 10 minutes to save battery power.

7) The way the timers are incorporated is pretty confusing to me.

8) You get different setup options (as far as I can tell) depending on whether you use GCC or GHL connect.

I’m sure there are ways around some of this stuff but it’s not intuitive. I’m still happy with it, as the hardware is good, but I’m not impressed with the software.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

If it is your internet that is down the controller will continue to work as programmed. You can still turn outputs on and off manually if needed via bluetooth if you are there. You cannot change any of the setup programming without internet as it saves a configuration on the cloud and that would error so bluetooth mode won't allow those changes to happen. Changing setup programming not usually something that I would be doing very often anyway once it is setup. I have very poor internet service and loss of internet has not been that much of a problem for me as far as the controller. It interrupts me from doing other things via the internet. Is there anything else that you have a question on about the Hydros?

Thanks that's very helpful!

Having just bought a new GHL P4 (having not had a controller for several years) I am shocked at how bad the software is.

There are probably ways around this but here are a few things I have found.

1) Dosers that can’t set an automatic schedule between 2 times. e.g. if I want to dose overnight I have to add all of the dosing amounts in manually, I can’t set it to dose 20ml from 10pm to 8pm for example. You can do that over 24 hours, but can’t pick the start/stop time.

2) It assumes that you want to control the heater with the Profilux. You can’t just go in and tell it to turn the heater off if it reaches a certain temp (I.e. a failsafe).

3) It monitors the power through the sockets but there is no programming available to do anything with that info (e.g. turn the pump off if it gets stuck).

4) The reminders section is awful. You can’t tell it to remind you to do something on a certain date. You have to tell it to remind you in X days.

5) When you set up the maintenance schedules and give it a name (e.g. water change) the front screen on the Profilux still calls it ‘Maintenance 1pm’ so you have to remember which program is which.

6) The power outage monitoring only give you the option to turn things on and off. You can set it to, for example, allow the temp to drop 5 degrees before turning on the heater, or cycling the return pump on and off every 10 minutes to save battery power.

7) The way the timers are incorporated is pretty confusing to me.

8) You get different setup options (as far as I can tell) depending on whether you use GCC or GHL connect.

I’m sure there are ways around some of this stuff but it’s not intuitive. I’m still happy with it, as the hardware is good, but I’m not impressed with the software.

I think one way around item 2 is that you simply set a much lower temp than the minimum you have on your heater controller. So for example set it to 75F to "turn on" but have your heater controller activate the heaters at 78F. Then set the max temp on the GHL to something like 83F as your failsafe. This way the outlet is always "on" but your heater controller is actually controlling the temp, and the high setting on the GHL is your failsafe.

 

[FishyFishFish]

Unless I have missed something, you can’t set low and high temps on the Profilux, which is part of the problem. You set the target temp and hysteresis.

You can probably do that through the programming, but how difficult would it be just to let you set the on/off temp?

 

[i_am_mclovin]

Unless I have missed something, you can’t set low and high temps on the Profilux, which is part of the problem. You set the target temp and hysteresis.

You can probably do that through the programming, but how difficult would it be just to let you set the on/off temp?

Ahhh that's right, it's a +/- vs an on off. Sorry it's been 2 years so I forgot.

You could then instead rely upon GHL to do the controlling with temp on/off and for your heater controller that becomes the failsafe (set a max temp). In my experience the GHL hardware (outlets) are FAR superior in reliability and can handle all of that cycling. The apex EB's cannot.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Unless I have missed something, you can’t set low and high temps on the Profilux, which is part of the problem. You set the target temp and hysteresis.

You can probably do that through the programming, but how difficult would it be just to let you set the on/off temp?

You use "virtual " temp probes and can do all that after a week or so of video watching.

Or have a buddy that has already invested his time into learning it do it.

Advanced programming can shut things based on temp too. I have a mix of both for high and low temps on heater chiller, emergency shut offs.

 

[n2585722]

Ahhh that's right, it's a +/- vs an on off. Sorry it's been 2 years so I forgot.

You could then instead rely upon GHL to do the controlling with temp on/off and for your heater controller that becomes the failsafe (set a max temp). In my experience the GHL hardware (outlets) are FAR superior in reliability and can handle all of that cycling. The apex EB's cannot.

Am I missing something can't you just set the GHL around 3 degrees higher than the temp on you heater controller and use it as a fail safe like that. You can set the turn on and turn off temps separate on the Hydros but both would still have to be above the working temp of the heater controller For it to work correctly.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

Am I missing something can't you just set the GHL around 3 degrees higher than the temp on you heater controller and use it as a fail safe like that. You can set the turn on and turn off temps separate on the Hydros but both would still have to be above the working temp of the heater controller For it to work correctly.

I can't see why that wouldn't work?

 

[ScottB]

Ahhh that's right, it's a +/- vs an on off. Sorry it's been 2 years so I forgot.

You could then instead rely upon GHL to do the controlling with temp on/off and for your heater controller that becomes the failsafe (set a max temp). In my experience the GHL hardware (outlets) are FAR superior in reliability and can handle all of that cycling. The apex EB's cannot.

Agreed, anything that oscillates ON/OFF very often I won't control with the APEX EnergyBar -- heaters for sure. I count on the InkBird relays, and the APEX as an override should one of them get stuck ON.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

If it is your internet that is down the controller will continue to work as programmed. You can still turn outputs on and off manually if needed via bluetooth if you are there. You cannot change any of the setup programming without internet as it saves a configuration on the cloud and that would error so bluetooth mode won't allow those changes to happen. Changing setup programming not usually something that I would be doing very often anyway once it is setup. I have very poor internet service and loss of internet has not been that much of a problem for me as far as the controller. It interrupts me from doing other things via the internet. Is there anything else that you have a question on about the Hydros?

What kinds of things are you controlling on the “control” ports? What kind of PH probe can be used on a sensor port?

 

[n2585722]

What kinds of things are you controlling on the “control” ports? What kind of PH probe can be used on a sensor port?

I am going to assume you are referring to the drive ports when you say control ports. I have 6 drive ports which are 12v ports. I use them to power 3 dosing pumps and 3 solenoids. The dosing pumps are ATO, AWC and All for Reef dosing. The solenoids are for turning on my RODI and refilling my mix tank and DI tank.

Sensor ports have a digital and a analog input. The temp sensor, leak detectors, flow meters, water level sensors and etc connect to sense ports. The pH and ORP probes require a probe port. Probe ports use a BNC connector which is common for pH and ORP probes. The X3 has one probe port and the X4 has two probe ports. The X2 and XS have no probe ports. The new XP8 has no input ports but does have 8 AC outputs.

 

[i_am_mclovin]

I am going to assume you are referring to the drive ports when you say control ports. I have 6 drive ports which are 12v ports. I use them to power 3 dosing pumps and 3 solenoids. The dosing pumps are ATO, AWC and All for Reef dosing. The solenoids are for turning on my RODI and refilling my mix tank and DI tank.

Sensor ports have a digital and a analog input. The temp sensor, leak detectors, flow meters, water level sensors and etc connect to sense ports. The pH and ORP probes require a probe port. Probe ports use a BNC connector which is common for pH and ORP probes. The X3 has one probe port and the X4 has two probe ports. The X2 and XS have no probe ports. The new XP8 has no input ports but does have 8 AC outputs.

Thank you this clears up a lot! I had misunderstood a few things with the ports.

 

[n2585722]

I ended up with GHL. Definitely not in love with it. But no hardware has failed. Setup is time consuming beyond sanity and i am still calibrating the kh director, but test results are consistent enough for me. You MUST watch videos over and over again to initially setup. Then it's not bad to adjust. Write down settings as months later--you will not remember and it is the opposite of intuitive.

Definitely more focused on the monitor aspect than the control aspect, you are totally right. No way i would trust the KH director to control ALK. Just monitor. My mp 40's are not connected to it at all, nor monitored by it.

Mostly, i kinda hate the app. It might connect 50 % of the time, randomly, sometimes quickly, most times SLOW, and other times never at all. The graphs are basically useless with no numbers on the x or y axis.

All and all, the hardware is the purchase, so as long as it holds up--i'll deal with the rest of it, but won't blow smoke up any one's butt---there is room for a better monitor/controller in this market for sure.

Neptune, after the Sky rollout and bs marketing there, i am just totally turned off by and won't buy for that reason on top of the repeatedly stated cheap quality.

Hydros may be a solution, and its parts are cheap enough that i agree it could be a contender. The wireless power brick is ultimately why i did not go that way. I trust wifi and bluetooth not at all. Honestly, i wish GHL computer was hardwired to the internet. Apex at least has that feature.

Here is a wired solution for AC for the Hydros https://www.coralvue.com/hydros-control-xp8-controller-only

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Here is a wired solution for AC for the Hydros https://www.coralvue.com/hydros-control-xp8-controller-only

Go Hydros!

Certainly not in love with my GHL...

Does it take ethernet cables?

 

[KStatefan]

I hate the amount of time i get grey boxes

 

[n2585722]

Go Hydros!

Certainly not in love with my GHL...

Does it take ethernet cables?

It is wifi also but it does connect with the other control units with command buss cables. So it will comunicate with the other units without wifi or internet. It uses a CAN system. I have 8 units connected in a collective in two places which are 35ft apart. The control units are also bluetooth and you can connect that way but you cannot change the programming. You can turn outlets on and off that way. The XP8 is a control unit that is output only, but otherwise it is a full controller. On the Hydros the programming is in all the control unit in the collective regardless of which inputs and/or outputs the specific control unit has. All are capable of being a wifi master to control the wifi devices such as the power strips and they can be setup to automaticay switch if something happens such as the current wifi master looses wifi connectivity.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I hate the amount of time i get grey boxes

I AGREE. IT IS TERRIBLE. MANY TIMES FOR ME I DON'T EVEN GET GRAY BOXES.

 

[n2585722]

@Mywifeisgunnakillme this is the status page on the Hydros in bluetooth mode. There are no pages it is all on a single page, but at least you can check everything. I also turned off an output in the last screenshot in bluetooth. So basically this is all my inputs and outputs I have setup at this time.