Deciding on controller: What do you hate most about Apex, GHL, and HYDROS?

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

You have a learning curve with GHL and to do advanced processes is hard

The thinking is not what people are normally used too, but the logic is solid and consistent.

Okay, that makes sense. I used an aquacontroller jr. many years ago, and got use to the coding. I even liked it, although there was a learning curve and it was slow to type in on the little screen. I just thought the ability to do whatever i wanted was AWESOME. No one else was doing anything similar at the time. I might even have it laying around somewhere, and should look, lol.

The new apex looks like the same coding, correct?

Starting to lean towards Apex controller but avoid their other products. Honestly, that's what a controller should be---just a controller and the best controller should be able to control any devices made by anyone--so you can have the best controller and best equipment??

That said, how do people like the Trident? Hate it?

On the GHL side, how do people like the alk tester and doser? Hate it? Can you use a versa pump with the GHL alk tester?

And the Alkatronic? Hate it?

Thanks!

 

[HuduVudu]

Starting to lean towards Apex controller but avoid their other products. Honestly, that's what a controller should be---just a controller and the best controller should be able to control any devices made by anyone--so you can have the best controller and best equipment??

The problem is that for you to have real control you need to stay in the ecosystem. APEX makes it really hard to get outside of that system, and with their little spat with ECOTech I doubt they will ever really try. GHL is better. I built a DIY fan for my APEX. It works well, but it was tough to get everything going for it, from the hardware side. I am using a 24VDC fan, I had to splice some wires and do some basic soldering. Once I got it up then the programming was easy. GHL has a fan bank that I can buy. It is solid and works. They thought about my needs. I like that. I also like that GHL is modular. My 120VAC sockets aren't tied to the brains of my controller. Now GHL needs to build a power strip that is 24VDC and life would be complete. Seriously hardware is king here in reef land. LOL @Lasse is using his power strip to control his heater, and I am talking about using it without a heater controller. The amount of cycles he is putting that power strip through I would NEVER think about doing to an APEX if I wanted it to live.

Best is a perspective thing. For me hardware trumps software every single time. It is really really important that the hardware work and work reliably.

On the GHL side, how do people like the alk tester and doser? Hate it? Can you use a versa pump with the GHL alk tester?

I have had DOS, Komear F4 Pro, Versas and GHL. The GHL hands down is the better doser. I am not nice to dosers and I have specific needs, so I am really picky. Order of preference, GHL, DOS, Versa, Komear. As I mentioned before DOSs drift, Versas have a terrible issue with their tubes flattening out (Yes even the new ones), though I love the continuous dosing that the bring and the Komear set up is a complete joke. I didn't even really get a chance to test the Komear because of the setup. It was really shady and bad. I sold my Versas and my DOS I only use the GHL. One crappy thing about the GHL stand alone doser is that when you slave it you lose the port for temp. This kind of sux, but not a deal killer.

Be warned Mobius is ummmmhhhh ... less than desirable. I have it on my Radion and on my two Vectras. I am less than impressed. Because I am not in the EcoTech universe, I will probably end up having to deal with the EcoTech pumps through the hardware controllers with buttons. Not desirable. My new Mitras I think will fully be what I go to in the future. I am not too upset about the Radion hardware wise, but I am really really really disappointed in Mobius.

 

[robbyg]

The comparisons are all listed in the link in my signature below. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses. Pick what is important to you and the choice is a lot easier. For me Reliability is Everything.

 

[lafarrow]

I was thinking Hydros originally, then GHL for solid equipment (but seems tough using software), now leaning APEX for software really, but with versa dosing pumps and better substitute equipment where i can. Is this a mistake?

wow. I’m not sure this is helpful but I’ve been doing the same research and have come to the same conclusions you do here. Nice summary of how they looked to me as well. I’m considering same options for same reasons. I think we are all fated to building our own Frankensteins!

 

[HuduVudu]

This:

Account Suspended

APEX is wearing out their welcome. Now I know who started the EcoTech spat.

 

[HuduVudu]

The comparisons are all listed in the link in my signature below. Each of them has strengths and weaknesses. Pick what is important to you and the choice is a lot easier. For me Reliability is Everything.

More specifically:

https://aquariumcontrollers.com/files/controllers.html

This is a incredibly detailed comparison of many many controllers. Nice job @robbyg

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

This:

Account Suspended

APEX is wearing out their welcome. Now I know who started the EcoTech spat.

Ill probably regret asking but what is the eco tech spat? (In a few sentences??).

What hardware on Apex is a must avoid?

 

[HuduVudu]

Ill probably regret asking but what is the eco tech spat? (In a few sentences??).

Back in the days of yore, you bought an APEX so that you could run MP40s and MP60s and Radions. You used an expansion box called WXM. The set up was very expensive but it worked well and was the best thing you could get for integration. I had this set up and it was nice to get wave patterns and lights to work together. Then there was a falling out and EcoTech decided not to put their, new at the time Vectras on APEX. It escalated from there and the final blow came with the WAV pumps from APEX.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

The problem is that for you to have real control you need to stay in the ecosystem. APEX makes it really hard to get outside of that system, and with their little spat with ECOTech I doubt they will ever really try. GHL is better. I built a DIY fan for my APEX. It works well, but it was tough to get everything going for it, from the hardware side. I am using a 24VDC fan, I had to splice some wires and do some basic soldering. Once I got it up then the programming was easy. GHL has a fan bank that I can buy. It is solid and works. They thought about my needs. I like that. I also like that GHL is modular. My 120VAC sockets aren't tied to the brains of my controller. Now GHL needs to build a power strip that is 24VDC and life would be complete. Seriously hardware is king here in reef land. LOL @Lasse is using his power strip to control his heater, and I am talking about using it without a heater controller. The amount of cycles he is putting that power strip through I would NEVER think about doing to an APEX if I wanted it to live.

Best is a perspective thing. For me hardware trumps software every single time. It is really really important that the hardware work and work reliably.


I have had DOS, Komear F4 Pro, Versas and GHL. The GHL hands down is the better doser. I am not nice to dosers and I have specific needs, so I am really picky. Order of preference, GHL, DOS, Versa, Komear. As I mentioned before DOSs drift, Versas have a terrible issue with their tubes flattening out (Yes even the new ones), though I love the continuous dosing that the bring and the Komear set up is a complete joke. I didn't even really get a chance to test the Komear because of the setup. It was really shady and bad. I sold my Versas and my DOS I only use the GHL. One crappy thing about the GHL stand alone doser is that when you slave it you lose the port for temp. This kind of sux, but not a deal killer.

Be warned Mobius is ummmmhhhh ... less than desirable. I have it on my Radion and on my two Vectras. I am less than impressed. Because I am not in the EcoTech universe, I will probably end up having to deal with the EcoTech pumps through the hardware controllers with buttons. Not desirable. My new Mitras I think will fully be what I go to in the future. I am not too upset about the Radion hardware wise, but I am really really really disappointed in Mobius.

What sucks about mobius? I have mp60's in future for sure. .. and was thinking of the versa doser...

 

[HuduVudu]

I also have to say that I don't use GHL Connect. So I am not sure how good or bad it is.

One other thing GHL physical alarms are better and I use them currently. APEX physical alarms leave something to be desired.

This is helpful if you are near your aquarium. Just to explain more of how I use the controller.

 

[HuduVudu]

What sucks about mobius? I have mp60's in future for sure. .. and was thinking of the versa doser...

OMG where do I start.

My Vectras won't stay connected. I have to restart them constantly if I want to access them. I just set them and leave them alone. I don't tinker because I don't want them going down. Because they are my main pumps for my new tank, I don't need them to have brain freezes. My Radion is the same way. I don't tinker. Set it up leave it alone. I was able to do soooooooo much more when I could using the WXM to configure them through APEX. The configuration was truly amazing.

The Versas have all of the ugliness of Mobius plus their hardware problems. I really liked the idea of these dosers. I bought the four pack with the power supply rack when they first came out. I couldn't sell them fast enough. The sad part is that the hardware looks like it has real potential. Whether they can follow through I don't know, for now I am burned and I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. And did I mention Mobious. Sometimes the one of the pumps would hang because of the bluetooth ugliness and I would have to restart the pump. What an incredible lesson in frustration. And then there is the MP40. I had this problem when I had mine running through APEX. The MP40s magnets will eventually weaken and start to slide. Also the dry side gets this gooey stuff on the plastic. Don't know what it is but it is messy. And did I mention they run hot. I have had waaaaay better luck with the Tunze Turbonella. I don't like it being in the tank because I don't want heat in the tank, I live in TX, but it has been relatively solid. I could try to hook the Tunze to the APEX 1-10V port but I at this point I am not really interested and it is not an easy thing to do.

I guess you get to hear every complaint I have with every company.

You asked for it.

 

[HuduVudu]

Ohhh yah and I forgot Mobius doesn't allow you control from the internet. That is supposed to be coming in the future. It is weird because they are looking to discontinue Reef Link. So Mobius is definitely in a state of flux as far as that goes.

 

[Jeffcb]

Well, I have an Apex but haven't fired it up yet so I do not hate it yet. Hopefully I never will.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Back in the days of yore, you bought an APEX so that you could run MP40s and MP60s and Radions. You used an expansion box called WXM. The set up was very expensive but it worked well and was the best thing you could get for integration. I had this set up and it was nice to get wave patterns and lights to work together. Then there was a falling out and EcoTech decided not to put their, new at the time Vectras on APEX. It escalated from there and the final blow came with the WAV pumps from APEX.

That all makes me just want to buy jebaeos and wifi outlets...

 

[Lasse]

Now GHL needs to build a power strip that is 24VDC and life would be complete. Seriously hardware is king here in reef land. LOL @Lasse is using his power strip to control his heater, and I am talking about using it without a heater controller.

To be honest GHL have already equipment that allow you to manage not only 24 V DC but all on/off device from 0 - 240 V. It is the power hub that´s in short is 6 relays with one cord switch. I use them for all my 12 and 24 V equipments and with central 12 and 24 V power units. I also use one as a digital input signal together with Ad in card. For at least 240 V 50 Hz the amperage reading works - for 12 and 24 V DC - not so good.

That´s the one I use for my heather too. However - my experiences says that you should try to avoid high W equipment on these power hubs (I stay below 500 W with 240 V 50 Hz) I use it for a 200 W heater. - you can see every cycle in this chart. It is for the last days and every cycle (bar) is around 2 minutes. I have run this for more than 2 years now. Let us say that I have 75 cycles a day - it means more than 50 000 cycles and still working.

At my job - we use both the old 6 PAB, 5.1 and new 6 E powerbars. With these we use up to 1000 W heaters. With exception for the "dimmable" socket in 5.1 it has work very well. The dimmable only manage 200 W. Some of the old 6PAB have been used for + 10 years and we are talking about + 100 000 cycles. I have not lose ANY outlet from 6 PAB or 6 E during these years (the 6 E is only around 1 years old). According to 5.1 - we have overloaded the dimmable socket. ( there is a fuse inside - easy to repair)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

How I could sample the power hubs cycle? It is easy. With the latest firmware - you have 32 dosing pump. You do seldom use all of them. You can use one of these to react virtaly to the index of the switch you use for your heater. Put the volume to 1ml/min - activate sample - and voila

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lucas815]

Ohhh yah and I forgot Mobius doesn't allow you control from the internet. That is supposed to be coming in the future. It is weird because they are looking to discontinue Reef Link. So Mobius is definitely in a state of flux as far as that goes.

It's been confirmed that the Radion G5 lights will be the "hub" that all other Mobius devices will connect to, and the Radion will be connected to the internet via Wifi, making it possible to control everything through the internet, and completly bypassing that awful bluetooth connection.

No clue on when this will be released though... thank you COVID-19.

 

[HuduVudu]

Bravo Neptune ::slow clap::

It is happening - Neptune SKY LED Light

Is the hobby ready for one of the best things to come since the Trident?

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I'd be more excited if they made current hardware usable on any controller....

Seriously i am so annoyed at even having to determine what works with what, that i may not get a controller at all and just go wifi plugs.

I mean if its a consensus that apex hardware is generally unreliable--which it seems hard to debate otherwise--why make new hardware before addressing those problems with current hardware???.. seems shorter term profit thinking...

So, i guess, the sky thing crosses Apex off my list. May cross ecotechs off my list too.

Back to GHL or Hydros or neither.. i mean i dont need a controller, its id like it thing, but if it l8mits my hardware options im simply not going to do it or pay someone to take away my options in this hobby

 

[LegendaryCG]

Apex probes seem pretty flaky to me. Even after calibration.