Cycling: Is it needed in water taken directly from the sea

Lynnzer

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I'm about to go into marine from freshwater tropical and I have just collected some wet sand and seawater directly from my clean non industrialised beach. I have also collected some lovely looking rocks from the cliff that runs along the beach. I understand that wet sand from the beach might be considered "live" and that the seawater may also have the necessary parameters for a small tank I have, to condition everything before I use them later, especially making the rocks into live ones full of the beneficial bacteria.
My 1st question then is, as my tank has fresh beach sand and seawater could it be considered that this would suffice as safe water without going through the nitrogen cycle before introduction of any resident sea creatures? I'm in the UK where the water isn't warm so I intend to catch a couple of small fish or shrimp from the rock pools to see if they manage to survive. My intention is to "mature or condition" rocks for the actual designated tank to be used. I can water change with fresh seawater as often as needed if it helps.
If that isn't feasible then perhaps introducing something like Aqua Care Bio-Boost might just assist. Basically I'm trying to speed things up and in the lease expensive way possible.

These are some of the cliffside rocks. They are in 45 - 60 cm layers in the cliff face and seem to be some sort of mineralised vegetation. The area is designated as being limestone by nature. They look lovely and all it takes to get them is either collect the bits that have fallen loose, or to take a crowbar to loosen them off.
I understand that what I'm doing is something that may seem risky by using natural sand and seawater but this is only to try and build up live rocks. When everything goes into a tropical marine set up tank I'll only be using the proper salt mix and water additives.

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The sand and water will provide some biodiversity, however it's the rock that determines if a tank is cycled or not.
You can use natural sea water but testing the salinity and parameters will be needed and dosing done accordingly.
 
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The sand water are great dont get me wrong. The cliff limestone not so much. The sand will help with bacteria, but the water essentially is just water, most of the bacteria needed for cycling inhabit sand and rock.
 

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The nitrifying bacteria live on the surface of the rocks primarily which is why ideally wild collected live rock is from somewhere near a tropical reef area. The water will have bacteria but not many of the bacteria that you'll be needing for a cycle. If that rock was collected from a cliffside it's not the same as traditional "live rock".
 
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Lynnzer

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Tropical water rock just doesn't exist in the north-east of England. I can collect some rocks from the rock pools at the beach but from coldwater. Will they be OK to use as live rocks just so I can add the rocks I collected to become sufficiently live with bacterial spread.
Remember this isn't for anything else than just to make the rocks live before they get used in the intended tank.
Would the addition of the Aqua Care help at all?
 

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Tropical water rock just doesn't exist in the north-east of England. I can collect some rocks from the rock pools at the beach but from coldwater. Will they be OK to use as live rocks just so I can add the rocks I collected to become sufficiently live with bacterial spread.
Remember this isn't for anything else than just to make the rocks live before they get used in the intended tank.
Would the addition of the Aqua Care help at all?
I'm not familiar with the product Aqua Care but to answer your original question, yes you'll still have to cycle since a majority of the nitrifying bacteria are not in the water, bit on surfaces such as rock
 

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I would double check but in many areas harvesting rock from the ocean is illegal. Also most rock collected might not be what you need for a tank. Rock in our tanks need to be as porous as possible. Rocks on shore have been smoothed from the waves and probably won't be ideal.
 
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The sand and water will provide some biodiversity, however it's the rock that determines if a tank is cycled or not.
You can use natural sea water but testing the salinity and parameters will be needed and dosing done accordingly.
The main reason I used actual seawater is that it probably contains some sort of plankton that might be helpful in setting up the tank.
The sand and water will provide some biodiversity, however it's the rock that determines if a tank is cycled or not.
You can use natural sea water but testing the salinity and parameters will be needed and dosing done accordingly.
So what's a decent salinity tester? There are many on the market but I have a couple of testers already, ie the pH and TDS.
One like that would be good if it was reliable enough.
 
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Lynnzer

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I bought some "proper" rock from my local supplier yesterday to drop into the tank alongside the collected bits and added some Aquacare Bio Boost. Hopefully that;ll give me the intended result.
Another question. As the water in a tank evaporates, would it be OK to top it up with rainwater? I know RO is best but isn't easily available here.
EDIT
Ah. I think I know what's coming on this question. NO WAY. Water is the air they breathe and even rainwater has some potential pollutants. I use it inmy tropical freshwater tanks though with no problem. YET, at least.

So another question. My tank is 80cm long, by 40 by 40.
I would appreciate a clue as to a reasonably priced overhead light, preferably on an arm and with a controller app.
 
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I bought some "proper" rock from my local supplier yesterday to drop into the tank alongside the collected bits and added some Aquacare Bio Boost. Hopefully that;ll give me the intended result.
Another question. As the water in a tank evaporates, would it be OK to top it up with rainwater? I know RO is best but isn't easily available here.
I wouldn't top off with rain water . Just buy a small ro/di unit from Amazon . I'm no expert but I don't think rain water will do it .
 

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You will be fine IMO. There is not much bacteria in water but there is in sand if it was submerged sand. The cliff rock will not have as you probably know. but you want to use it to colonize the bacteria you do have. You will have to go thru a cycle, but aerobic and anaerobic bacteria need fuel to grow. I know you said you bought a proper rock, but unless that rock came out of a high nutrient system it is unlikely that it will be enough that you will not go thru a cycle. You have the proper bacteria in your tank now, you just have to grow it to your load right now. But you do not have a load, so that's where a piece of shrimp comes in.
 
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Lynnzer

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Ah, when I said proper rock I meant the ones riddled with holes. Not Live Rock.
I have started a cycle now though and am waiting to start testing shortly.
However, and here's a question that may have been answered on forum - I have the NT Labs test kit for freshwater and did a 1st water test yesterday just to see how things stood at the start of cycling. Then I found the kits for saltwater from NT Labs which says that it is for marine. Nothing seems to be different as the chemical tubes are labelled the same. So is this a scam? The marine test kit has less testing chemicals that the freshwater but the price s higher. I mean, what else can NH3-1 or any of the other tubes be? It must surely be the same in salt and freshwater test kits.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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world's easiest no-test cycle for the arrangement above:

if those rocks were wet with sea water when they went into this tank, then the entire cycle is complete via skip transfer. waiting longer can't pack more bac onto surfaces, and you've used a reasonable degree of surface area to carry common animals in that tank pic above.

I assume you've put in a heater, and it's all reef temps correct? that plates the bacteria even faster and if you left it cool water/inside room temp it's still doubling every day because home contaminations are getting into the room, your house is warmer than the sea and micro animals are dying in the water/ feeding a cycle that you don't have to test for.

you should do a water change, then any fish you add, relative to that temp zone for the tank, will live. the tank is skip cycled if the rocks came in wet.


and if they did not, they were dry rocks: as soon as those rocks sit in contact with oceanwater from anywhere on the planet for 20 days they're cycled by mere contact. if you want to hyper-drive a dry rock setup using cool seawater, all you do is add in one pinch of fish food ground into fine powder. add nothing else.

wait five days, do a full water change, that set of formerly dry rocks is now 100% cycled and no testing is needed and even if those cheap tests above disagree, they're wrong, this method is infallible and runs thousands of reefs.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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your type of cycle is not one of causing ammonia spikes and watching them go away

its one of duration only, because you're using sea water which beats anyone's bottle bac

seawater has cycling bac, mixed bacteria riding on rafts of tiny bits of living and non living material etc/it has a decay cycle and a photosynthetic ability when lit; seawater expires quickly when unfiltered but its astounding diverse even in coldwater areas.

there's a known wait time for your setup based on # of days to wait ranging from ready day 1/if those rocks were wet to / wait ten days after feeding if they were dry. 1-10 days, whereas the longest wait option matches the ammonia control line on any cycling chart seen since 1967

:)
 
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Lynnzer

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Many thanks @brandon429
You've more or less confirmed what my own logic tells me.
As the rocks I placed into the tank were dry then they need the bacterialogical feed. I have used the Aqua Care Bio Boost and dry fish flake, with the addition of a deceased Amano shrimp from my freshawater tank that got sucked into the filter pump feeder pipe.

I also have more dry rock that I'm going to bring to life and have a thought on that too. I don't currently have a spare tank to drop them into at present so am intending to put them in a mesh bag then into a tidal rock pool for a couple of weeks. Of course it'll be cold water but the bacteria are not going to suffer any by being used in a warmer water, I think. They are, after all, the same bacteria.

Due to the expense of buying fish, anemonies etc and putting them into a tank which may not be really ready for them, and seeing an expensive die back, I'm getting a couple of mollies and acclimating them for life in a marine environment. I'll put one in when I'm within spitting distance of tranferring everything to the newly set-up tank which is currently being put together. If that works, it's all go from then.
If not, well hey. Sorry for the Molly but better that than goodbye Nemo !!!
 
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Lynnzer

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One more thing.
Would the filtration ceramics from a running freshwater tank achieve anything if I used thm in an in-tank filtration system with a refugium? I believe the same bacteria inhabits both fresh and salt water.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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You don’t need the extra surface area. The display has enough rocks and surface area to carry any degree of fish that can fit in the tank. using the extra media won’t hurt but it’s not helpful either, it’s neural impact
 

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