Curing BRS Dry Pukani in a New DT

[ReeferRoo]

So I have decided to cure my BRS Dry Pukani in my new DT.

I will also have some Tonga Shelf and Branch in the tank.

I started this thread to both ask for advice/feedback as well as post my success or failure.

Personal Reasoning for curing in tank vs a conventional method - Tank build got pushed to the back burner between the holidays and then got really sick for a month and a half, and My intention is to have the tank cycled and hopefully be past the phosphate leaching issue with cleanup crew, some corals, maybe a Nem before Reef-A-Palooza, NY in June (4 Months away), and I feel as though I am running out of time since it is still cold in the NE for at least another month or two for doing acid bath, rinsing, etc outside!

Now, I have been told by several people that I can cure in tank, and found other threads that said yeah you can do it and even came across this thread -

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/curing-pukani-dry-rock-the-easy-way.203461/

I have concerns going into this...

1. Calcification of the sand bed without critters...(I read that this could be a problem, but didn't see any real detailed information why and since I am not going to be dosing calc, mag, or alk during the cycle/curing process I am not sure if it is a valid concern.)
2. Detritus build up in the SB without a cleanup crew (Planning 1.5" deep), yes vacuuming can address this so not a major concern.

Time Line -

1. Finish Plumbing and fill for a leak test by 3/5, let water run for 24 hours then drain.
2. Complete Aquascape by 3/18 and fill with RO Water and mix in salt with sump.

I plan to do the following...(credit to @rdlewis) for the general plan

1. Add RODI water to tank, mix salt in tank (still building my mixing station).
2. Add Bio-Spira
   
3. Run the water through the sump and skimmer to get rid of possible particulate nasties that shed/dissolve off of the rock.
4. Have power heads on full bore to keep any possible debris/detritus in suspension to hopefully send down to the sump for removal by socks (to be changed/cleaned regularly)
   
5. Run Carbon for smell and water clarity, continue to use as needed.
6. Run BRS High Capacity GFO for the leaching phosphates.
7. Keep lights off, tank is in the basement so there is little to no light in general.
   
8. Test Tank Water and GFO Output every 2-3 days for phosphates, change GFO as needed
   
   1. Also Test - Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrites
9. When debris/detritus stops showing up in socks, begin ghost feeding.
10. When Phosphates in tank read .08 or better add Refugium Light and Cheato in sump.
11. Once Tank is showing cycled, (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 5-40ppm Nitrates give or take) and I have diatoms add cleanup crew. Start phasing in lights at low levels, 20-30% opposite sump schedule.
12. Once phosphates are under .05, start phasing in the lights to full power over a 1 week period to possibly any aggressive algae blooms at bay.
13. Continue GFO until Phosphates 0.02-.03.
14. Have a small party with my cleanup crew!!!

Questions for the Experts (anyone who has done something like this in the past)!

1. Is the calcification of the sand bed a valid concern? (I am assuming the tank will be cycled in 4-6 weeks, but the high phosphates could take months, and I read something that said high phosphates can cause calcification in the sand bed, but I think that was only if you were dosing one of the main three, Alk, Calc, or Mag.)
2. During the curing process I plan to finish building my SW mixing station and getting an ATO and AWC system setup, Is there any reason why I would need to do WC in the first few weeks during the cycle/cure other than for additional nutrient export which the socks, GFO and micro bacteria should all be able to handle during the cycle, correct?
3. What should I ghost feed with? and how much and how often? I have nothing yet as I don't have fish, tank is 120G, system will be about 140G.
4. Any other pitfalls I have not accounted for?
   
5. Did I miss anything is my process.
6. Is there anything else anyone would want me to watch/test for while I am doing this?

As stated I will post updates, successes and failures as I go through this, but any feed back is greatly appreciated especially in the next 2-3 weeks while I get everything ready!

 

[Rick.45cal]

I cycled mine in tank, but, I filled the entire tank with 160 gallons of DI water, then changed 100% of it 24 hours later. I did that everyday for 2 weeks! (That's 2,240 gallons of DI water for anyone who's not keeping track). Pukani is filthy!!!!!!!! It took that much DI water/time until it stayed relatively clear for48 hours and didn't smell like all the occupants of SeaWorld came and used my tank as their toilet after I went to bed! (Seriously reconsider your choices).

If I had to do it over, I would have taken all my rock and put it in a rubbermaid water trough, filled that full of DI water and dumped a gallon of bleach in it and waited a week. Then drain/hose off/ place back in DI water with a bunch of dechlorinater for at least a few days. Then tossed it all out in the sun to dry (or acid wash and then rinse). Then put it in my tank.

Yes I got my cycle started with it, but you are really in for a nightmare scenario if you mix salt with the first batch of water. It's gonna be nasty!

 

[Rick.45cal]

Just to give you an idea of what you are in for. This is DI water! Less than 4 hours after adding it initially to the pukani!!!! This is my sump. I COULD HAVE USED MY SKIMMER... IN FRESHWATER!!!!!

This was the tank only a couple hours after initially filling it up (if my memory serves)

I can't stress this enough... IT SMELLED LIKE AN ORCA OUTHOUSE!

You do not want this in your home, if you value your olfactory senses!

 

[Dubs83]

Yea! I cured mine in DI water while dosing SeaKlear. It's a phosphate remover for pools but is used to remove phosphate as these tend to leach a lot of it. Once down to acceptable levels I dumped the DI and seeded with salt water.

Agree with the above... this stuff STINKS!

 

[blkhwkz]

For my Pukani I did a muriatic acid bath. Then into a Brute can in saltwater with heater and powerheads for about 10 weeks in the garage. Dosed lanthanum chloride every other day, did maybe 2 water changes during that time. The 2nd day of the rock being in the Brute (before dosing LC) my phosphates were over the limit the Hannah ultra low checker can read. I knew it was going to be bad, because after adding the reagent the sample water turned blue, never seen that before. It took that entire time of dosing lanthanum every other day to get the phosphates down to about .08-.10. You are going to run through a ton of GFO if you use that. No issues with phosphates once I got the DT and got it all setup and cycled. So far no algae issues or anything, tank has been running since August, finished the cycle in September.

As @Rick.45cal said, the smell day 2 and for quite awhile was terrible. Good thing it was in the workshop area in my garage, my wife would have lost her mind if the house smelled like that.

 

[ReeferRoo]

@Rick.45cal
so at the very least if I am doing this...run RODI water only, then add salt later in the process and keep changing out the water?

Were you running carbon?

How long did it take for phosphates to dissipate?

 

[ReeferRoo]

@blkhwkz

How long did you soak in Muriatic acid? how thoroughly did you rinse after the soak?

with the current outside temps I wont be able let the rock dry but I could probably hose is down, do I need to rinse with RO or is tap okay? There is no chlorine in my water. I am well water.

 

[ReeferRoo]

is there any truth to carbon combating the stench? even if I run crazy amounts of carbon for a couple of days? basically how long will the smell last?

And if I do a muriatic acid bath, will the rock still be able to cycle off whats left? or just ghost feed at that point?

 

[blkhwkz]

@blkhwkz

How long did you soak in Muriatic acid? how thoroughly did you rinse after the soak?

with the current outside temps I wont be able let the rock tdry but I could probably hose is down, do I need to rinse with RO or is tap okay? There is no chlorine in my water. I am well water.

About a 10-15 minute soak in muriatic acid and then I used the garden hose with tap water to hose it down. Pieces were sitting on a tarp in the sun so dried slightly outside maybe, but not to much before I tossed them in the Brute can. I could definitely shake water out of them still when I threw them in the can.

 

[theblackpearl]

What I did for my BRS pukani wash pressure wash it in the driveway for about an hour. Then I let it soak in my tank water and did a big water change after a week. Pressure washing took dead matter off

 

[ReeferRoo]

@theblackpearl

any smell issues?

 

[Vaughn17]

I'm cycling a 180 with Pukani rock, right now. I soaked the rock in tubs of freshwater for a few days (changed the water once), then took it outside and hosed it off, then rinsed it off again with hot water in the sink. A few really smelly pieces were soaked in peroxide overnight. Added it to the tank the next day (btw, this rock is so cool to aquascape, like Legos for adults) and didn't add any salt for over a week as I had no skimmer or plumbing. The latter was installed a week ago, and the skimmer pulled its first dry skimmate today. Ammonia peaked at 2 and few days ago and has been holding a 1; Nitrate is up to 7 or 8; and Phosphate is .5. If the latter doesn't climb any higher, I'll add some GSPs and zoas to one end of the tank (as soon as the ammonia level drops), and only run blue lights over that area. Or maybe I'll just run some GFO. Definitely adding corals first.

 

[theblackpearl]

@theblackpearl

any smell issues?

Just for week or so......beats waiting to cycle it in a bucket and acid scares me

 

[Rick.45cal]

It took awhile for the phosphates to subside, I don't remember how long.

I ran over a liter of activated carbon and it choked to death on the smell and died before it even made an impact. It did nothing. (Just wasted a bunch of activated carbon).

Pukani is wonderful stuff once you get all the old dead stuff gone and all the organic matter stops seeping out. My tank is a year old and my pukani is covered in coralline and beautiful stuff. Was it worth it? I dunno, it's arguable. I love my rock now!

 

[spiraling]

I just set up a tank with a minimum amount of pukani, mostly tonga. I put it in a brute for a couple of weeks and boy did it stink. Then I examined every rock and there was still a ton of sponges on it, barely starting to decay. I took out all the sponges I could find with tweezers and let it sit another few weeks in water. After that I cut my rocks for my aquascape. I got pukani because it cuts with a hacksaw fairly easily. I still had full sized sponges inside the rock I couldn't see or get too. I can't remark anything in phosphates, as I didn't measure mine, but I would not cycle in the display tank unless you have many months. It takes a lot to rot everything out, and that rot will be in your tank.

If I did it again I would use bleach for a few days, at least, and then prime to remove it. Really hot water may be beneficial as well. I'm sure muratic works well but it scares me.

 

[ReeferRoo]

So you all scared me with curing the BRS Pukan in tank without any prep...

last week I ended up doing the muriatic acid bath and a bleach soak...updated in my build thread...

see here... ReeferRoo's Custom 125 (My First Tank)

here are some Lessons learned -

Good decisions...

1. Uniseals are friggin awesome!!! If your going to do this, buy a 3/4" uniseal, use a 3/4" pvc scrap of pipe, and a cheap home depot 3/4" ball valve and the system wont leak and its wicked easy to drain.
I think i drilled a 1-1/8" hole for the uniseal. If anyone wants to know for sure i can check the drill bit.

2. Did it on a windy day so smell was nearly nonexistent

Bad ideas...

1. Did it on a windy day, foam was flying everywhere for a good 45 min to an hour

Overall not a bad experience....I would definitely do again, maybe even use more acid next time if these successfully reduces my phosphate leaching.

Used 2 gallons of muriatic acid to about 30 gallons of water, poured 1 gallon of acid by each of the 2 power heads. in phases.

used 1.5 gallons of bleach when i did the bleaching phase to the same amount of water.

 

[Rob77]

So you all scared me with curing the BRS Pukan in tank without any prep...

last week I ended up doing the muriatic acid bath and a bleach soak...updated in my build thread...

see here... ReeferRoo's Custom 125 (My First Tank)

here are some Lessons learned -

Good decisions...

1. Uniseals are friggin awesome!!! If your going to do this, buy a 3/4" uniseal, use a 3/4" pvc scrap of pipe, and a cheap home depot 3/4" ball valve and the system wont leak and its wicked easy to drain.
I think i drilled a 1-1/8" hole for the uniseal. If anyone wants to know for sure i can check the drill bit.

2. Did it on a windy day so smell was nearly nonexistent

Bad ideas...

1. Did it on a windy day, foam was flying everywhere for a good 45 min to an hour

Overall not a bad experience....I would definitely do again, maybe even use more acid next time if these successfully reduces my phosphate leaching.

Used 2 gallons of muriatic acid to about 30 gallons of water, poured 1 gallon of acid by each of the 2 power heads. in phases.

used 1.5 gallons of bleach when i did the bleaching phase to the same amount of water.

How long did it take for the phosphate to drop and how low did it go?

 

[ReeferRoo]

How long did it take for the phosphate to drop and how low did it go?

Even after doing the muriatic acid bath and bleaching I had a constant trickle of phosphates around .17 for about 2 months as the stuff at the core of the larger pukani rocks finished breaking down, that being said...I ran high-capacity GFO and that kept it in check .00 to .03 until things normalized, still run the GFO as cautionary but don't have to change the media very often.

 

[Idoc]

Even after doing the muriatic acid bath and bleaching I had a constant trickle of phosphates around .17 for about 2 months as the stuff at the core of the larger pukani rocks finished breaking down, that being said...I ran high-capacity GFO and that kept it in check .00 to .03 until things normalized, still run the GFO as cautionary but don't have to change the media very often.

Good info! I am also using Pukani rock and my tank is cycling now. I actually cured my Pukani for about 6 weeks in freshwater just to break down the majority of the organic materials in the rock...then let it all dry out again (planned on working several dry aquascaping ideas). I think I should have kept the cure going for much longer! I've been testing my parameters during my cycle and I'm running around 0.14 phosphate (Hanna checker) and my nitrates are through the roof...probably over 100 now! I'm only about 2 weeks into the cycle! I'm concerned that maybe I need to do something during the cycle to control the nitrates...I can always throw in a small bag of Phosguard to control the phosphates. So far, algae hasn't shown in the tank! But, with those parameters, I think I'm just asking for a huge outbreak (beyond the regular uglies with a new tank) soon!

 

[ReeferRoo]

Good info! I am also using Pukani rock and my tank is cycling now. I actually cured my Pukani for about 6 weeks in freshwater just to break down the majority of the organic materials in the rock...then let it all dry out again (planned on working several dry aquascaping ideas). I think I should have kept the cure going for much longer! I've been testing my parameters during my cycle and I'm running around 0.14 phosphate (Hanna checker) and my nitrates are through the roof...probably over 100 now! I'm only about 2 weeks into the cycle! I'm concerned that maybe I need to do something during the cycle to control the nitrates...I can always throw in a small bag of Phosguard to control the phosphates. So far, algae hasn't shown in the tank! But, with those parameters, I think I'm just asking for a huge outbreak (beyond the regular uglies with a new tank) soon!

Took a while for Algae to show in my tank, now starting to get little cropping of purple corraline, plenty of gray/green for some time now. I had a red cyano issue for a while after I started to add live stock, I did some research and just added Korallen-Zucht- Coral Snow and Korallen-Zucht-Phol's Coral Vitalizer which both complete for the nutrients that Cyano metabolizes, cleaned it out in 1 week give or take a day or two. Haven't seen any cyano since. I have brown algae on my tank walls but my inverts keep up on it, especially my tuxedo urchin, (added some rubble rock that clearly had some organic matter and phosphates that have been leaching.

I think the other thing that helped me is my system is pretty high flow, I have never had a nusiance algae outbreak anywhere but on some of the back walls where the return jets or power heads are not blowing on or in the refugium in the sump (usually the worst spot), Although I added an urchin down there along with 2 nuisance male mithrax (Emerald Crabs) and they keep it fairly spotless now, need to move the urchin to the DT to help clean walls, over feeding lately and dealing with some Nitrate and Phosphates feeding algae but no impact on the corals.

I would guess a 6 week cure probably wasn't long enough, I have heard of people going 8-12 weeks and longer with Pukani. Think I even read about people going 6 months and still battling with Phosphates without doing the acid bath and bleaching which is what ultimately broke me down to do the acid bath and bleach.

My tank went wet and started it's cycle In late April or Early may this year, so the photos above are since then and have been able to successfully have polyp extension and coral growth on every piece in the tank.

I would almost recommend stopping and doing the acid and bleach bath because you really dont know what is left in the core of your Pukani Rocks. I pushed it off for a long time afraid of messing it up or hurting myself, in the end, I would do it every time now, even for the rubble rock I use for various things in the tank, and with every type of rock in the future. So easy and as long as you respect the acid you will be fine.

I think my build thread below has my actual experience, I will check after this post and if not, I will post the thread that does.

1. Buy a large sturdy rubbermaid tub, a 3/4" uniseal, and necessary 3/4" pipe section and valve, muriatic acid (Volume based on how big the tub is), Rubber gloves, goggles, and a face mask/respirator (something to help with the fumes), Plain Bleach 1-2 gallons, and some Seachem Prime.
2. If you have a cheap power head add it to the tub to help circulation, I used 2 Hydor 1950 power heads.
3. Throw your rock in the tub, fill up with garden hose water outside in a safe open air spot where you don't mind killing the grass when you drain it on a mildly breezy day
4. Add the muratic acid, I added a couple of times, each time the muriatic acid reacts with the top layer of Calcium Carbonate on the Rock and eats it away pulling away and degrading the organic matter as well, you will know when the muriatic acid is neutralized as the bubbling/frothing will stop.
5. Drain the tub through the uniseal valve. When almost empty just rinse with garden hose water. Move the rocks around, if you have a pressure washer then use that as well.
6. Clean the tub of residue organic matter.
7. Put rock back in tub (Again outside in a clear and well ventilated area)
8. Add Bleach and let powerheads circulate the water, let stand for 24 hours.
9. Drain bleach water and rinse with garden hose water again.
10. Refill with garden hose water, double or even tripple dose or more with seachem prime, it's cheap and effective at neutralizing chlorine.
11. After 24 hours Prime is inert, take out the rock and lay out in the sun. (When I did it, it was still 30-40 degrees outside so I just let is air dry in my garage with a fan on it for 4-5 days).

After that I worked my aqua-scaping in a dry environment and added it to the tank. Filled the tank with RODI water once, Drained again to help export some of the junk that may have been in my tap water, Added dry sand and mixed the salt in tank through the return chamber in my sump. Once salinity was 1.026 and it ran for a day or two I added the recommended dosages of Bio-Spira with some extra, 24 hours later I added like 5 ML of Pure Ammonia, 2 weeks later I showed 0,0,0. Added another 5 ML of pure ammonia, 24 hours later showed something like 0,.1,.25, a few days later 0,0,0 again with something like .17 phosphate, added the High Capacity GFO, Phosphates were below .03. Did a 40% water change and shortly after added my first inverts (10 emeralds (Mithrax), 10 Blue Hermits, 10 Red Hermits, something like 40 snails) fed them some invert food for 2 weeks, parameters stayed at 0,0,0-15, bought my first zoas and clove poly coral, they survived 2 weeks, then stated adding everything else, Reef-A-Palooza came and added like 14 Frags ($600) to the tank and everything has done great since, probably added another $1,400 in corals including, Softies (Zoas/Palys/Rhicordea/Yuma), LPS (Favias, Acans (Assuie/Lords/Micro)/Euphyllia/Echinata/Chalices/Duncans/Leptos), LPS (Birdsnests, Acroporas, Montiporas (Undata's/Digi's/Plating) and even 1 NPS Sun Coral since, plus 5 fish, 2 sand sifting stars, 1 reef lobster, 1 pistol shrimp, 3 urchins, more hermits and a quad color BTA. Everything is doing great!

I can't promise your cycle will go as quick but by doing the above it should lessen your troubles and maybe mitigate it down to just dealing with some phosphate leaching which is totally manageable. I will admit my cycle was very fast.

I will also admit I took advice and information from various sources when I did the acid and bleach baths as there was no particular write up for it beyond various peoples experience. I will have to ask the Reef2Reef team if they would let me submit an article with photos and step by step as I recently purchased some additional Pukani that I will be doing the process on soon.