corals don't look happy

[kozzy]

Hi everyone. So my tank has been up for about 3 months and has had inhabitants for 2. Stock includes a few fish and corals... mostly lps with a few soft corals. Over the past two weeks ive noticed almost all my lps starts closing up and looking pretty terrible at around 8pm which is really confusing me. The light period is 12 hours from 11am to 11pm so its not like their closing up to "sleep" or whatever. In general though as well over the past few weeks ive noticed all my corals havent been looking as good in general... some days a coral will be fully extended and happy the next not so much. Just looking for some advice, Ill throw my parameters down below as well as some photos of what things look like after 8. The only thing I can think of is having no nutrients as I am really struggling to get any detectable n and p. The only reason I don't think this is the issue is because ive been dosing tropic marin plus np for the past month which should be giving the corals what the need. Also I started dosing this as some dinos were showing up and over 2 days they were completley gone so that leads me to think that it has been putting nutrients in the water. Also youll see in the photo that my lobo is completley fine and puffy as well as my torch which they always seems to be but all the other euphyllia, the pectinia, and micromusa, and scoly dont look good at all in the pm.

salinity - 1.026 - refractometer
temp - 78-79
alk - 9 (dosed throughout the photo period) with all for reef (hanna)
mag - 1350 (salifert)
cal- 445 (salifert)
nitrate and phosphate are 0 (hanna)

Thanks in advance

 

[Iceman3358]

Could be zero nitrate and phosphate, I had the same issue. Tried feeding more and adding more fish to rise it up but nothing worked, so I started using neonitro from brightwell and now my nutrients are stable. I like to keep nitrate around 5-10.

Hope this helps

 

[robottaway]

Try some reef roid/chili. Can just broadcast feed or target. 2/3 times a week. helped me when I bottomed out had the same issue. I feed frozen and only so much my fish can take. Just pay close attention to the numbers for awhile and ease up until you can keep them stable.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Hi everyone. So my tank has been up for about 3 months and has had inhabitants for 2. Stock includes a few fish and corals... mostly lps with a few soft corals. Over the past two weeks ive noticed almost all my lps starts closing up and looking pretty terrible at around 8pm which is really confusing me. The light period is 12 hours from 11am to 11pm so its not like their closing up to "sleep" or whatever. In general though as well over the past few weeks ive noticed all my corals havent been looking as good in general... some days a coral will be fully extended and happy the next not so much. Just looking for some advice, Ill throw my parameters down below as well as some photos of what things look like after 8. The only thing I can think of is having no nutrients as I am really struggling to get any detectable n and p. The only reason I don't think this is the issue is because ive been dosing tropic marin plus np for the past month which should be giving the corals what the need. Also I started dosing this as some dinos were showing up and over 2 days they were completley gone so that leads me to think that it has been putting nutrients in the water. Also youll see in the photo that my lobo is completley fine and puffy as well as my torch which they always seems to be but all the other euphyllia, the pectinia, and micromusa, and scoly dont look good at all in the pm.

salinity - 1.026 - refractometer
temp - 78-79
alk - 9 (dosed throughout the photo period) with all for reef (hanna)
mag - 1350 (salifert)
cal- 445 (salifert)
nitrate and phosphate are 0 (hanna)

Thanks in advance

Have you had a reef with coral in the past? I see you have been a member for a while

 

[PharmrJohn]

Just to cover bases, what kind of lighting are you running and what's the size of your tank?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Just to cover bases, what kind of lighting are you running and what's the size of your tank?

And flow

 

[PharmrJohn]

And flow

Yes! Thanks!

 

[kozzy]

Try some reef roid/chili. Can just broadcast feed or target. 2/3 times a week. helped me when I bottomed out had the same issue. I feed frozen and only so much my fish can take. Just pay close attention to the numbers for awhile and ease up until you can keep them stable.

thanks for the reply. I feed reef roids almost every other day and feed the tank quite headily and dont see room for any more fish

 

[kozzy]

Have you had a reef with coral in the past? I see you have been a member for a while

i had a fowlr tank when I was quite young hahah but like I said just started getting this tank going. I had a few soft corals and things like that so not a complete newb but definitely new to alot of things

 

[kozzy]

Just to cover bases, what kind of lighting are you running and what's the size of your tank?

I have two AI prime 16s, and it is the fluval 32.5 gallon. uv,purples, and blues are roughly running at 80%, whites 15, and green and red at 3% at peak hours with a two hour ramp up and down. Also they are mounted 10 inches above the water

 

[kozzy]

And flow

the return was upgraded to the siecce 1.5 and i have a nero 3 running at about 40%

 

[reefluvrr]

This is just what I suspect. When you carbon dose and phosphate and nitrate goes to zero, you could be stripping out all the necessary phosphate and nitrogen that the bacteria living in your corals need. The bacterial holobiont in your coral may not be able to compete with the limited phosphate and nitrate that are eaten up by the bacteria you carbon dosed for. (Yes your corals may eat the bacteria that was carbon dosed for, but I wonder if other bacteria living in your coral creating a symbiotic relationship--the coral holobiont--may starve to death---> thus resulting in unhappy overal coral health.
I think this is part of the new D.O.C. (dissolved organic carbon) levels people are talking about. Having too high of D.O.C. levels in your reef tank will outcompete with the bacterial holobiont in your tank.

reduce Carbon dosing to try and get phosphate level around 0.1.

Here is the article talking about D.O.C.

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

 

[kozzy]

This is just what I suspect. When you carbon dose and phosphate and nitrate goes to zero, you could be stripping out all the necessary phosphate and nitrogen that the bacteria living in your corals need. The bacterial holobiont in your coral may not be able to compete with the limited phosphate and nitrate that are eaten up by the bacteria you carbon dosed for. (Yes your corals may eat the bacteria that was carbon dosed for, but I wonder if other bacteria living in your coral creating a symbiotic relationship--the coral holobiont--may starve to death---> thus resulting in unhappy overal coral health.
I think this is part of the new D.O.C. (dissolved organic carbon) levels people are talking about. Having too high of D.O.C. levels in your reef tank will outcompete with the bacterial holobiont in your tank.

reduce Carbon dosing to try and get phosphate level around 0.1.

Here is the article talking about D.O.C.

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

thanks for the reply! I will check out the article. Just wanted to clarify that I am using plus np not bacto-balance so the purpose of that was to increase my levels to be detectable and then begin carbon dosing with bacto-balance to maintain it. Although, it has been a month and I havent seen any increases so maybe it is time to find another method. Would you say I should start something like neo nitro and neo phos to get levels up? Ive been reading all about it and Im sure it would work the only thing that held me back was that ever since Ive been using the plus np I have had next to no algae...just a slight dusting on the glass that I wipe off every few days. No amount of heavy feeding has had any effect on increasing phosphates...(I actually triggered a bacteria bloom a few weeks ago with the amount I was feeding). I don't run a skimmer and I reduced my filtration as well and still no nutrients.

 

[reefluvrr]

No amount of heavy feeding has had any effect on increasing phosphates...(I actually triggered a bacteria bloom a few weeks ago with the amount I was feeding). I don't run a skimmer and I reduced my filtration as well and still no nutrients.

What type of food are you feeding to your fishes? What type of filtration are you using? Something is sucking up your nutrient levels--->If you dose neo phos or neo nitrate, it may be sucked up until it is no longer able to.

Have you tried Tropic Marin Phosfeed? If you were thinking of dosing phosphate, I would try that.

Phos-Feed | Produktinformationen

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

How many fish do you have? maybe the easiest answer is to have more fish that can raise both nitrogen and phosphate level in your tank?

 

[kozzy]

What type of food are you feeding to your fishes? What type of filtration are you using? Something is sucking up your nutrient levels--->If you dose neo phos or neo nitrate, it may be sucked up until it is no longer able to.

Have you tried Tropic Marin Phosfeed? If you were thinking of dosing phosphate, I would try that.

Phos-Feed | Produktinformationen

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

How many fish do you have? maybe the easiest answer is to have more fish that can raise both nitrogen and phosphate level in your tank?

I have 4 fish and that seems pretty maxed out to me as much as I want more fish, I think once this problem solves, adding those fish now will create more in the future. I feed them 2x a day a varition of frozen mysis/brine, ocean nutrition flakes, and new life spectrum pellets. Also broadcast feed reef roids about 3 times a week. I was trying to find it but couldn't find it for sale anywhere in canada. Ill look into ordering it and was also looking into like aminos but didn't think that would help my situation much. My filtration is simply filter floss, a bit of carbon, and seachem matrix as the biological media. I was using chemipure blue but took it out a few weeks ago since I though thats what was stripping the nutrients but I guess not.

 

[reefluvrr]

My filtration is simply filter floss, a bit of carbon, and seachem matrix as the biological media.

Wow you got me stumped on what is sucking up your phosphate and nitrate.
Given how you feed and what filtration you use which is similar to what i do, I have phosphate at 0.47 in my nano tank.

Did you test your phosphate level like 15 minutes after you use reef roids? I wonder what your PO4 levels are at right after you feed?

 

[kozzy]

.

 

[kozzy]

Yep it’s rlly throwing me for a loop and quite frustrating because I spent alot of time learning how to keep water parameters stable in all the other aspects and feel successful at that so far and I can’t get any nutrients lol. In my old tank that certainly wasn’t an issue. I’ve never tested right after feeding I’ll try another day and let you know. I also was confused cuz I feel like majority of the corals (euphyllia) I have don’t rlly benefit from broadcast feeding food like that so it wasn’t really being consumed just dumped into the water and yet still nothing.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I’ll update you soon

Wow you got me stumped on what is sucking up your phosphate and nitrate.
Given how you feed and what filtration you use which is similar to what i do, I have phosphate at 0.47 in my nano tank.

Did you test your phosphate level like 15 minutes after you use reef roids? I wonder what your PO4 levels are at right after you feed?

^^

 

[kozzy]

Wow you got me stumped on what is sucking up your phosphate and nitrate.
Given how you feed and what filtration you use which is similar to what i do, I have phosphate at 0.47 in my nano tank.

Did you test your phosphate level like 15 minutes after you use reef roids? I wonder what your PO4 levels are at right after you feed?

so I just tested phos after feeding reef roids and my phosphates were 0.13. I tested prior to it and it was zero. I dont even know what to think about this since i feed a few times a week and yet it just bottoms out. What do you think? I just ordered tropic marin phos feed and brightwell neo phos and neo nitrate. I dont think Ill use the brightwell stuff but I just wanted to have it on hand so I have the option. I think Im gonna continue with the plus np and the additional phos feed to get the corals what they need and see how that goes. It'll probably take a week to get here. Do you think I should be throwing in some reef roids every single day?

 

[kozzy]

Wow you got me stumped on what is sucking up your phosphate and nitrate.
Given how you feed and what filtration you use which is similar to what i do, I have phosphate at 0.47 in my nano tank.

Did you test your phosphate level like 15 minutes after you use reef roids? I wonder what your PO4 levels are at right after you feed?

Tested again a few hours later and it’s back to zero…