Coppersafe ppm based on Fritz instructions

[Thisisfine]

Does anyone know the approximate concentration of copper (ppm) if dosed based on Fritz instructions of 5mL / 4 gal?

I am performing a copper QT for the first time and using a Hanna Copper HR checker for the first time and want to ensure I've not introduced bias in the event I used the checker incorrectly. For perspective - I did watch an instructional video but wasn't sure how strong the effect is based on how much powder enters the vial.

I have a 40g QT set up and dosed 20mL last night. I checked the copper concentration roughly 24 hours later and 20mL into a 40g only equated to 0.63ppm per the checker.

Main goal here is not to kill everything by overdosing. Since I'm not sure what the intended level of copper is using Fritz instructions I would hate to either finish the correct dosage and be under based on a flawed test or use an extrapolated value and by exceedingly over. Extrapolating using 40g on the safe side for displacement (website noted 44.5g capacity) I would need to dose ~71mL in total compared to the instructed 50mL. Assuming the 20mL = 0.63ppm ratio is right then Fritz is only targeting 1.5ppm?

Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Does anyone know the approximate concentration of copper (ppm) if dosed based on Fritz instructions of 5mL / 4 gal?

I am performing a copper QT for the first time and using a Hanna Copper HR checker for the first time and want to ensure I've not introduced bias in the event I used the checker incorrectly. For perspective - I did watch an instructional video but wasn't sure how strong the effect is based on how much powder enters the vial.

I have a 40g QT set up and dosed 20mL last night. I checked the copper concentration roughly 24 hours later and 20mL into a 40g only equated to 0.63ppm per the checker.

Main goal here is not to kill everything by overdosing. Since I'm not sure what the intended level of copper is using Fritz instructions I would hate to either finish the correct dosage and be under based on a flawed test or use an extrapolated value and by exceedingly over. Extrapolating using 40g on the safe side for displacement (website noted 44.5g capacity) I would need to dose ~71mL in total compared to the instructed 50mL. Assuming the 20mL = 0.63ppm ratio is right then Fritz is only targeting 1.5ppm?

Thanks!

1.5mL of coppersafe to per gallon or .5ml per 4 gallons

 

[Thisisfine]

1.5mL of coppersafe to per gallon or .5ml per 4 gallons

Sorry - What I'm asking is what is the intended final concentration in ppm of copper using Fritz Coppersafe per the instructions of 5mL/4gal? I'm trying to understand if my ratio is roughly in line what the concentration Fritz is intending or if it's off. I added 20mL to a 40 breeder to yield 0.63ppm per the Hanna Checker. Extrapolating the total volume added using that makes 71mL versus 50mL Fritz is instructing. I don't want to dose up to 71mL and find I made an error somewhere. Just trying to due my diligence.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Does anyone know the approximate concentration of copper (ppm) if dosed based on Fritz instructions of 5mL / 4 gal?

I am performing a copper QT for the first time and using a Hanna Copper HR checker for the first time and want to ensure I've not introduced bias in the event I used the checker incorrectly. For perspective - I did watch an instructional video but wasn't sure how strong the effect is based on how much powder enters the vial.

I have a 40g QT set up and dosed 20mL last night. I checked the copper concentration roughly 24 hours later and 20mL into a 40g only equated to 0.63ppm per the checker.

Main goal here is not to kill everything by overdosing. Since I'm not sure what the intended level of copper is using Fritz instructions I would hate to either finish the correct dosage and be under based on a flawed test or use an extrapolated value and by exceedingly over. Extrapolating using 40g on the safe side for displacement (website noted 44.5g capacity) I would need to dose ~71mL in total compared to the instructed 50mL. Assuming the 20mL = 0.63ppm ratio is right then Fritz is only targeting 1.5ppm?

Thanks!

I've run a series of tests using a Hanna HR checker and my best lab technique and I got 2.25 ppm as a "full dose" according to label instructions.

Your tank probably holds about 38 gallons of water. That would be 47.5 ml for a full dose. Your partial dose should have hit about 0.95 ppm.

Three possibilities:

1) The Hanna checker can be tricky to use, especially in getting all of the reagent out of the pillow.
2) In some tanks, due to high calcium carbonate in the water, the first partial dose gets negated a bit.
3) I've heard rumors of (but have not seen it myself in over 50 years of using it) that some batches of coppersafe vary in concentration.

Then, it could be all three items working to create the difference.

I would wait 24 hours, test again, then dose it to the 2.25 mark, let it circulate for a few hours and test to confirm.

Jay

 

[Thisisfine]

I've run a series of tests using a Hanna HR checker and my best lab technique and I got 2.25 ppm as a "full dose" according to label instructions.

Your tank probably holds about 38 gallons of water. That would be 47.5 ml for a full dose. Your partial dose should have hit about 0.95 ppm.

Three possibilities:

1) The Hanna checker can be tricky to use, especially in getting all of the reagent out of the pillow.
2) In some tanks, due to high calcium carbonate in the water, the first partial dose gets negated a bit.
3) I've heard rumors of (but have not seen it myself in over 50 years of using it) that some batches of coppersafe vary in concentration.

Then, it could be all three items working to create the difference.

I would wait 24 hours, test again, then dose it to the 2.25 mark, let it circulate for a few hours and test to confirm.

Jay

Thanks Jay!

I'll try another 20mL dose tonight and check tomorrow night to see if the ratio increases. If anything, an additional 20mL will still be under the instructed full dosage.

I made 2 mistakes off the bat. I bought the checker back in December and didn't open until after the first dose finding it only comes with 5 test packets. Second mistake was assuming Amazon had a 2day on it to which point it seems I can't get additional packets until 2/9-2/12.

To sum it up, I'm hoping to not blow all of the packets before hitting target but do not want to overshoot based on the extrapolated numbers.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay!

I'll try another 20mL dose tonight and check tomorrow night to see if the ratio increases. If anything, an additional 20mL will still be under the instructed full dosage.

I made 2 mistakes off the bat. I bought the checker back in December and didn't open until after the first dose finding it only comes with 5 test packets. Second mistake was assuming Amazon had a 2day on it to which point it seems I can't get additional packets until 2/9-2/12.

To sum it up, I'm hoping to not blow all of the packets before hitting target but do not want to overshoot based on the extrapolated numbers.

I had the EXACT same problem with my first Hanna checker, I had no idea they only came with five packets!

In that case, I would dose the tank according to what a full dose would be, then let it circulate and retest, adding a bit more to "top it up" if need be. Just don't go higher than 2.5 ppm

 

[Thisisfine]

I had the EXACT same problem with my first Hanna checker, I had no idea they only came with five packets!

In that case, I would dose the tank according to what a full dose would be, then let it circulate and retest, adding a bit more to "top it up" if need be. Just don't go higher than 2.5 ppm

Glad to know I'm not the only one! I use the alkalinity checker which comes with enough for roughly 25 tests so I drew that conclusion.

I'll dose up to the 47.5mL and give it a check tomorrow.

Thanks again!

 

[Thisisfine]

@Jay Hemdal

Just to follow up - I dosed an additional 25mL of coppersafe, just shy of the 47.5mL you recommended. This raised the copper concentration to 1.44ppm from 0.63ppm from the initial 20mL dosing. The ratio of copper ppm per mL dosed for 20 and 25mL comes out to roughly 0.032ppm/mL each dosing attempt. Not sure if there's something in the QT absorbing some of the dosage. There's still some residual sand. The cannister filter just has foam and ceramic rings. The HOB just has foam. Some of the foam is from what I believe is a nitrate reducing pad I pre-seeded in the sump of the DT. I say "I believe" since it appears the company that makes it uses the same color for nitrate reducing and ammonia reducing pads.

I dosed 20mL into a 20g QT that is also set up and will check tomorrow to see if I'm getting the same ratio. That tank is equipped with a HOB with just ceramic rings and foam.

Maybe this is one of those cases of varying concentration in copper safe. I'd rule out user error on the Hanna Checker with the consistency in the ratio though without a redundant test kit I can't say it's not the checker itself.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Just to follow up - I dosed an additional 25mL of coppersafe, just shy of the 47.5mL you recommended. This raised the copper concentration to 1.44ppm from 0.63ppm from the initial 20mL dosing. The ratio of copper ppm per mL dosed for 20 and 25mL comes out to roughly 0.032ppm/mL each dosing attempt. Not sure if there's something in the QT absorbing some of the dosage. There's still some residual sand. The cannister filter just has foam and ceramic rings. The HOB just has foam. Some of the foam is from what I believe is a nitrate reducing pad I pre-seeded in the sump of the DT. I say "I believe" since it appears the company that makes it uses the same color for nitrate reducing and ammonia reducing pads.

I dosed 20mL into a 20g QT that is also set up and will check tomorrow to see if I'm getting the same ratio. That tank is equipped with a HOB with just ceramic rings and foam.

Maybe this is one of those cases of varying concentration in copper safe. I'd rule out user error on the Hanna Checker with the consistency in the ratio though without a redundant test kit I can't say it's not the checker itself.

The sand is most likely carbonate based, and could remove *some* of the coppersafe, I can't tell you if the pads would have any effect, as their composition is unknown.

Here is a simple test: take exactly 4 gallons of untreated water and use a pipette to add exactly 5 ml of coppersafe to i and mix well. After an hour or so, test the water. It should be at 2.25 ppm

You can then use that water in your tank.


Jay

 

[Thisisfine]

The sand is most likely carbonate based, and could remove *some* of the coppersafe, I can't tell you if the pads would have any effect, as their composition is unknown.

Here is a simple test: take exactly 4 gallons of untreated water and use a pipette to add exactly 5 ml of coppersafe to i and mix well. After an hour or so, test the water. It should be at 2.25 ppm

You can then use that water in your tank.


Jay

Thanks Jay, good idea! I really needed to get some water changes going whether I was at 2.25 or not so I was going to make a 5g batch before I left for work but unsurprisingly the powerhead gave up on life.

I've ordered a replacement and will likely just pick up a brute can for larger batches on the way home. I have to go out of town tomorrow for a bit but there's a LFS near where I'm going so I'll likely just buy 20g from them ust to get the WC going quicker and test out on a 5g batch when the new pump comes in with 6.25mL and see what the final result is.

 

[Thisisfine]

@Jay Hemdal
100% spot on with the quick experiment. Something is binding the copper to an extent. I mixed up a 5g batch before going out of town this morning and added approximately 6.25mL coppersafe. I checked just a bit ago and it was 2.32ppm.

I'll have to continue dosing up. Is there any danger in the bound copper eventually becoming unbound or is that a pretty stable configuration once bound? I'll obviously keep an eye on it but I didn't plan on checking on a daily basis. Mainly centered around water changes 2-3x a week.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal
100% spot on with the quick experiment. Something is binding the copper to an extent. I mixed up a 5g batch before going out of town this morning and added approximately 6.25mL coppersafe. I checked just a bit ago and it was 2.32ppm.

I'll have to continue dosing up. Is there any danger in the bound copper eventually becoming unbound or is that a pretty stable configuration once bound? I'll obviously keep an eye on it but I didn't plan on checking on a daily basis. Mainly centered around water changes 2-3x a week.

I’ve dosed coppersafe in tanks with coral sand and never had it become released later on like ionic copper does.

 

[Thisisfine]

I’ve dosed coppersafe in tanks with coral sand and never had it become released later on like ionic copper does.

That’s great! Thanks for the reassurance. I’ll dose up over the next day or two and get this qt phase moving.

 

[Anthonyl]

When treating with Fritz copper safe let say in a reef tank. Is this something that you would no even be able to add inverts to or after carbon and water changes you could start adding inverts again?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

When treating with Fritz copper safe let say in a reef tank. Is this something that you would no even be able to add inverts to or after carbon and water changes you could start adding inverts again?

That's a tough question. I've removed coppersafe through water changes, but I've not then used that tank for sensitive reef corals.

Carbon doesn't really work to remove copper.

You might be better off using hyposalinity if it is an ich problem, or moving the fish to a treatment tank if you must use copper.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

When treating with Fritz copper safe let say in a reef tank. Is this something that you would no even be able to add inverts to or after carbon and water changes you could start adding inverts again?

I'd imagine the copper would probably kill any corals and inverts already in the reef tank, but from what I've heard if you run cuprisorb and poly filters for a while, you should be able to safely add corals and inverts again after a few weeks:

I’ve heard similar to lion king’s comment from others: water changes with cuprisorb and poly filters seems to work (at least in some cases).

Some threads with examples:

has anyone ever treated display tank with copper and recorded long term issues after the fact?

im forced into treating my display with cupramine and was wondering if anyone on here has in detail recorded a daily log of how hard it was to stabilize copper to proper levels in a display tank/how long it took to remove it/how they removed it/what issues they face long term due to doing so. if...

www.reef2reef.com

Copper treatment in a DT, Documented

Hello everyone. I have Ich in my DT. I tried using ich-x which worked well when it was in use, but the day I stopped dosing it, the ich showed back up. because my tank is very new, I have no corals yet, and very few inverts at all. I decided after reading the thread by @Marc88 , I would make my...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Anthonyl]

I think im just going to pull all my fish and try and save them in a QT tank... It looks more like I have velvet that come out of nowhere.

Thanks for your help