Coppersafe dosing?

[ARGYGANG]

I dosed coppersafe 11 ml for 14 gallons of water and it’s reading 2.35 on Hanna checker after I dosed it (waited about 5 minutes to test if it helps and made sure to get all powder) did I mess up my calculations? I was going for 1.5 on initial dose and going to dose 6 ml more for 2.0

 

[gbroadbridge]

I dosed coppersafe 11 ml for 14 gallons of water and it’s reading 2.35 on Hanna checker after I dosed it (waited about 5 minutes to test if it helps and made sure to get all powder) did I mess up my calculations? I was going for 1.5 on initial dose and going to dose 6 ml more for 2.0

The dosage looks right, but are you sure you have 14 gals of water. How did you measure it?

edit: Test again after 1 hour

 

[sc50964]

Email Hanna and tell them your reagent lot number, which says on the box, and ask them if that lot has any issues.

 

[ARGYGANG]

The dosage looks right, but are you sure you have 14 gals of water. How did you measure it?

edit: Test again after 1 hour

I know it’s 14 gallons of water because I used 14 one gallon jugs to fill it to the level I wanted it at and I also had my fiancé do some math to calculate the water volume and they both matched at 14 haha. these weird readings are a common thing with Hanna checkers for me idk what I’m doing wrong it may be me or the checkers but I add 10 ml of water to the tube wipe off finger prints and the press the c1 button once c2 pops up I cut the regent packet and get as much powder as possible I make the packet into a kind of crease and it all funnels into it no problem, I shake for 15 seconds then let bubbles settle wipe off finger prints and then put the tube into Hanna and hold button to start the 45 second timer. I’m not moving the Hanna or anything while using it I purposefully don’t press the button until it’s flat on the table. Anything I’m doing wrong ? (Also will add for no confusion it’s not freshwater jugs I just mix my salt in a trash can and used a one gallon jug to fill the tank)

 

[gbroadbridge]

I know it’s 14 gallons of water because I used 14 one gallon jugs to fill it to the level I wanted it at and I also had my fiancé do some math to calculate the water volume and they both matched at 14 haha. these weird readings are a common thing with Hanna checkers for me idk what I’m doing wrong it may be me or the checkers but I add 10 ml of water to the tube wipe off finger prints and the press the c1 button once c2 pops up I cut the regent packet and get as much powder as possible I make the packet into a kind of crease and it all funnels into it no problem, I shake for 15 seconds then let bubbles settle wipe off finger prints and then put the tube into Hanna and hold button to start the 45 second timer. I’m not moving the Hanna or anything while using it I purposefully don’t press the button until it’s flat on the table. Anything I’m doing wrong ? (Also will add for no confusion it’s not freshwater jugs I just mix my salt in a trash can and used a one gallon jug to fill the tank)

You're doing it right - but how long do you let the bubbles settle for?
It's only a 45 second timer, so I only let the bubble settle for 15 secs max.

 

[ARGYGANG]

You're doing it right - but how long do you let the bubbles settle for?
It's only a 45 second timer, so I only let the bubble settle for 15 secs max.

I shake it vigorously for 15 seconds and then let the bubbles settle for around a minute or so then start the 45 second timer

 

[gbroadbridge]

I shake it vigorously for 15 seconds and then let the bubbles settle for around a minute or so then start the 45 second timer

Thats too long. Just give 5 secs to settle

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I often find that errors like these are from a combination of factors, so you want to look at all possibilities. How did you measure the 11 ml of coppersafe to begin with?

Jay

 

[ARGYGANG]

I often find that errors like these are from a combination of factors, so you want to look at all possibilities. How did you measure the 11 ml of coppersafe to begin with?

Jay

Squeeze bottle into a ml beaker

 

[ARGYGANG]

Thats too long. Just give 5 secs to settle

Okay so just shake for 15 wait for 5 seconds then insert and start timer?

 

[threebuoys]

Coppersafe instructions:
Use 5 ml (1 tsp) per 4 U.S. gallons (15 L), or 8 oz (1 cup) per 190 U.S. gallons (337.5 L). This dose maintains a total copper level of ~2.0 ppm, no redosing is necessary for up to one month. Treatment time will vary based on the infection you are treating.


Calculations:




If I understand what you were trying to do, and following the instructions,

14 gallons / 4 = 3.5
3.5 x 5 = 17.5 ml of Coppersafe to achieve ~ 2.0 ppm
(1.5 ppm target)/2.0 ppm = 75%
75% of 17.5 ml = 13.125 ml (Dose I would have expected you to administer)

Fishmedic guidelines:

5 ml x (2.5 ppm fishmedic guideline)/2.0 ppm (fritz instructions) =6.25 ml per 4 gallons

3.5 x 6.25 = 21.875 ml to attain 2.50 ppm for 14 gallons.

Per your description, I would have expected the test would have shown something lower than 1.5 ppm. (11ml/13.125 ml) x 1.5ppm = 1.26ppm)

Since you tested considerably higher (2.35), a couple of thoughts.

1. Any possibility you misread the amount of coppersafe you measured?

2. Perhaps you didn't give the water enough time to circulate (5 minutes I believe you said) and the solution had not mixed thoroughly yet.

3. Has your system been treated with copper previously and does it contain live rock, aragonite sand, dead coral or any other calcareous material that may have previously absorbed copper and is now leaching it back into the water?


As far as the testing procedure and timing, I think the Hanna product is a bit more forgiving than 5 seconds between mixing the cuvette and inserting it into the device before pressing the C2. The 45 second delay is just to let air bubbles and any other anomalies settle out. The instructions even indicate you can let the cuvette sit out of the device for 45 seconds and not initiate the countdown in the device if you wish. I've always viewed the 45 seconds as a minimum and not worried about it if I took a minute instead. ( I certainly wouldn't wait 5 minutes)

 

[gbroadbridge]

Okay so just shake for 15 wait for 5 seconds then insert and start timer?

Yes, the reaction is time critical (hence the timer).

You don't want the time to exceed 60 seconds from when you stop shaking until the end color is read by the Hanna.
That is what Hanna tech support told me when I had a support ticket with them last year.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Coppersafe instructions:
Use 5 ml (1 tsp) per 4 U.S. gallons (15 L), or 8 oz (1 cup) per 190 U.S. gallons (337.5 L). This dose maintains a total copper level of ~2.0 ppm, no redosing is necessary for up to one month. Treatment time will vary based on the infection you are treating.


Calculations:




If I understand what you were trying to do, and following the instructions,

14 gallons / 4 = 3.5
3.5 x 5 = 17.5 ml of Coppersafe to achieve ~ 2.0 ppm
(1.5 ppm target)/2.0 ppm = 75%
75% of 17.5 ml = 13.125 ml (Dose I would have expected you to administer)

Fishmedic guidelines:

5 ml x (2.5 ppm fishmedic guideline)/2.0 ppm (fritz instructions) =6.25 ml per 4 gallons

3.5 x 6.25 = 21.875 ml to attain 2.50 ppm for 14 gallons.

Per your description, I would have expected the test would have shown something lower than 1.5 ppm. (11ml/13.125 ml) x 1.5ppm = 1.26ppm)

Since you tested considerably higher (2.35), a couple of thoughts.

1. Any possibility you misread the amount of coppersafe you measured?

2. Perhaps you didn't give the water enough time to circulate (5 minutes I believe you said) and the solution had not mixed thoroughly yet.

3. Has your system been treated with copper previously and does it contain live rock, aragonite sand, dead coral or any other calcareous material that may have previously absorbed copper and is now leaching it back into the water?


As far as the testing procedure and timing, I think the Hanna product is a bit more forgiving than 5 seconds between mixing the cuvette and inserting it into the device before pressing the C2. The 45 second delay is just to let air bubbles and any other anomalies settle out. The instructions even indicate you can let the cuvette sit out of the device for 45 seconds and not initiate the countdown in the device if you wish. I've always viewed the 45 seconds as a minimum and not worried about it if I took a minute instead. ( I certainly wouldn't wait 5 minutes)

Okay seems like I may just be waiting to long to test. How I measured the coppersafe to 11 ml was by pipetting it out of the bottle and placing the medication inside a beaker until it reached 11 ml. I feel as if my dosing was correct and in the way I intended to do it I did the math and double checked it with my significant other, I was very careful to do so because I am using the coppersafe to treat butterfly and puffer fish, all of who are doing well so that leads me to believe I did not actually dose to the high levels read on Hanna. I believe it was more so just that I misused the Hanna checker and was waiting to long to complete the test. Edit: also no this is a new qt system purchased in a emergency to treat the fish for marine velvet which I may or may not even have but with thousands in livestock I could not risk it and take the chance when my sailfin and one damsel were breathing heavy

 

[sc50964]

Okay so just shake for 15 wait for 5 seconds then insert and start timer?

Sounds good to me. 1 min is likely too long as the C1 reading may time out or maybe somehow become inaccurate.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Yes, the reaction is time critical (hence the timer).

You don't want the time to exceed 60 seconds from when you stop shaking until the end color is read by the Hanna.
That is what Hanna tech support told me when I had a support ticket with them last year.

could small debri in the water also affect the test? not extreme or excessive amount or anything but just normal fish waste particles you can’t manually remove in a qt.

 

[sc50964]

could small debri in the water also affect the test? not extreme or excessive amount or anything but just normal fish waste particles you can’t manually remove in a qt.

I believes it reads color or maybe clarity so it prob will be affected if there are enough floating particles. They provide excellent online tech support. You should give them a try.

 

[gbroadbridge]

could small debri in the water also affect the test? not extreme or excessive amount or anything but just normal fish waste particles you can’t manually remove in a qt.

They could, so I normally take samples after the filter - which is difficult in a QT.
Anything significant would probably pretty much settle over 1 minute.

You could always do the test again if the first looks suspicious - however it will always vary a little due to the hanna +-0.05 error as well as any measurement errors with the 10ml sample. The amount of reagent is not that critical so don't go nuts trying to get the last tiny bit out of the packet.

 

[ARGYGANG]

They could, so I normally take samples after the filter - which is difficult in a QT.
Anything significant would probably pretty much settle over 1 minute.

You could always do the test again if the first looks suspicious - however it will always vary a little due to the hanna +-0.05 error as well as any measurement errors with the 10ml sample. The amount of reagent is not that critical so don't go nuts trying to get the last tiny bit out of the packet.

Alright think the issue is solved, as always thank you and everyone else for the help. This hobby would be a whole lot harder without yall

 

[ARGYGANG]

They could, so I normally take samples after the filter - which is difficult in a QT.
Anything significant would probably pretty much settle over 1 minute.

You could always do the test again if the first looks suspicious - however it will always vary a little due to the hanna +-0.05 error as well as any measurement errors with the 10ml sample. The amount of reagent is not that critical so don't go nuts trying to get the last tiny bit out of the packet.

Okay yes I understand now I am reliably getting 1.8-1.85 on the Hanna checker over three back to back tests. A bit higher than I intended to dose but atleast it seems right.