Converting Durso to Herbie Drain

[Pondscum]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and have a question that I can't seem to find the answer for..

I'm converting my Durso drain to a Herbie for my 120 gallon corner overflowed tank
Currently there are 2 bulkheads in the corner overflow, the drain is 1 1/4" and the return is 3/4"

What I'm wondering is.. when I convert to Herbie style drain, should the main drain be 3/4" and the emergency by the 1 1/4" or vice versa and will the 3/4" be good enough for a goog flow rate.
I am planning to pipe the return up the back of the tank and leave it as 3/4"
I have a Neptune Cor 20 for a return pump

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

In theory, your E drain should be able to handle the entire flow load, should the primary get blocked. With an open 3/4" e drain, your turnover should be Maxed out at 600-700gph.

With that orientation, I would neck the 1.25" bulkhead down to 1" pipe. 1.25 will flow way more than you need and the gate valve will be more expensive.

 

[srobertb]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and have a question that I can't seem to find the answer for..

I'm converting my Durso drain to a Herbie for my 120 gallon corner overflowed tank
Currently there are 2 bulkheads in the corner overflow, the drain is 1 1/4" and the return is 3/4"

What I'm wondering is.. when I convert to Herbie style drain, should the main drain be 3/4" and the emergency by the 1 1/4" or vice versa and will the 3/4" be good enough for a goog flow rate.
I am planning to pipe the return up the back of the tank and leave it as 3/4"
I have a Neptune Cor 20 for a return pump

3/4” drain (full siphon) and 1 1/4 should be the backup in my opinion. I don’t mess around with leaks. People will argue about a valve on the emergency drain. I say no.

“will that be enough flow?”

Hypothetically a 3/4” full siphon will drain 1600gph. Assuming 125g, x5 for most modern systems, 750gph is your target flow rate. Good to go.

Persobally, depending on head height, I’d turn the power down on my COR-20 to as close to 750gph as I can (no reason to stress the pump) and then tweak the rest with the gate valve.

 

[Pondscum]

Thanks for the reply..
Just to make sure i understand.. 3/4" for the e drain is sufficient size for my system
As you stated.. 600 - 700 gph should be fine
Can I not just use the valve to adjust the main drain and leave at 1 1/4 ( think less chance of clogging or at least longer time to clog)

 

[Pondscum]

3/4” drain (full siphon) and 1 1/4 should be the backup in my opinion. I don’t mess around with leaks. People will argue about a valve on the emergency drain. I say no.

“will that be enough flow?”

Hypothetically a 3/4” full siphon will drain 1600gph. Assuming 125g, x5 for most modern systems, 750gph is your target flow rate. Good to go.

Persobally, depending on head height, I’d turn the power down on my COR-20 to as close to 750gph as I can (no reason to stress the pump) and then tweak the rest with the gate valve.

Awesome.. Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

Awesome.. Thanks

My E drain is 1" but 3/4" should be ok along with others. My return is 3/4"

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Where are you getting your 1600 gph flow numbers from? That is Way higher than most show for 1" pipe much less 3/4" under full siphon. I run a fully open 3/4" full siphon with two 90's and have about 500 gph.

3/4” drain (full siphon) and 1 1/4 should be the backup in my opinion. I don’t mess around with leaks. People will argue about a valve on the emergency drain. I say no.

“will that be enough flow?”

Hypothetically a 3/4” full siphon will drain 1600gph. Assuming 125g, x5 for most modern systems, 750gph is your target flow rate. Good to go.

Persobally, depending on head height, I’d turn the power down on my COR-20 to as close to 750gph as I can (no reason to stress the pump) and then tweak the rest with the gate valve.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Above suggestions and 2 maggie mufflers =piece of mind.

 

[srobertb]

Awesome.. Thanks

To clarify one more time my opinion: bigger is emergency drain, smaller (3/4) is full siphon. A 3/4” full siphon will be more efficient than your emergency drain in draining water.

 

[Pondscum]

Where are you getting your 1600 gph flow numbers from? That is Way higher than most show for 1" pipe much less 3/4" under full siphon. I run a fully open 3/4" full siphon with two 90's and have about 500 gph.

OK I was thinking... if I were to use the 1 1/4" as my main drain and use the 3/4" as my emergency drain with a flow meter on the emergency drain with an alarm set to indicate that there is an issue with the main drain would that be ok??

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

OK I was thinking... if I were to use the 1 1/4" as my main drain and use the 3/4" as my emergency drain with a flow meter on the emergency drain with an alarm set to indicate that there is an issue with the main drain would that be ok??

That depends on if you are close enough to do something about it when it starts overflowing.

Best practice is to ensure your emergency drain can handle your entire flow load.

If you're away from the house for a few hours and get an alert because they snail has clogged up 90% of your main drain at 1.25 in, There is about zero chance a wide open 3/4" drain will be able to pick up the slack, which means you will be overflowing your display onto the floor.

That's not an ok option to me.

Do you have any ability to open up the three quarter inch bulkhead hole, to receive a 1.25 in?

If the tank is empty, This is something to consider. Doing that. You could neck them both down to 1 in, and be good to go.

 

[Pondscum]

That depends on if you are close enough to do something about it when it starts overflowing.

Best practice is to ensure your emergency drain can handle your entire flow load.

If you're away from the house for a few hours and get an alert because they snail has clogged up 90% of your main drain at 1.25 in, There is about zero chance a wide open 3/4" drain will be able to pick up the slack, which means you will be overflowing your display onto the floor.

That's not an ok option to me.

Do you have any ability to open up the three quarter inch bulkhead hole, to receive a 1.25 in?

If the tank is empty, This is something to consider. Doing that. You could neck them both down to 1 in, and be good to go.

Unfortunately the tank is full.. The noise from the durso has finally drove my wife to the edge.. If I want to keep the tank I need to do something. Not sure I want to try drilling the tank at this point. I could always have the flow set to shut the pump down or throttle it down to a very low flow rate until I get home to investigate.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Unfortunately the tank is full.. The noise from the durso has finally drove my wife to the edge.. If I want to keep the tank I need to do something. Not sure I want to try drilling the tank at this point. I could always have the flow set to shut the pump down or throttle it down to a very low flow rate until I get home to investigate.

If programming is your thing and you think you can, and want to, go for it.

I don't trust electronic things to work, when you need them to in an emergency.

 

[Pondscum]

If programming is your thing and you think you can, and want to, go for it.

I don't trust electronic things to work, when you need them to in an emergency.

What other options do I have?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

In theory, your E drain should be able to handle the entire flow load, should the primary get blocked. With an open 3/4" e drain, your turnover should be Maxed out at 600-700gph.

With that orientation, I would neck the 1.25" bulkhead down to 1" pipe. 1.25 will flow way more than you need and the gate valve will be more expensive.

What other options do I have?

It's up to you. The 3/4" could be used as an e-drain with higher than rated flow and you're taking a chance that you never need the full flow power. It could work just fine indefinitely. It could empty your sump into the tank and onto the floor.


You could spend a weekend, ripclean the tank, drill it for appropriate sized bulkheads and put it back together having plenty of food capability.


You could close off your main drain with the gate valve, set your pump flow to a Bit lower than the 3/4" e-drain can handle under full siphon, then open your gate valve and tune the flow through the larger pipe down to what your pump was set to. This will give you a 3/4" overflow and tank turnover will be in the 3-4x turnover per hour range.

 

[Pondscum]

It's up to you. The 3/4" could be used as an e-drain with higher than rated flow and you're taking a chance that you never need the full flow power. It could work just fine indefinitely. It could empty your sump into the tank and onto the floor.


You could spend a weekend, ripclean the tank, drill it for appropriate sized bulkheads and put it back together having plenty of food capability.


You could close off your main drain with the gate valve, set your pump flow to a Bit lower than the 3/4" e-drain can handle under full siphon, then open your gate valve and tune the flow through the larger pipe down to what your pump was set to. This will give you a 3/4" overflow and tank turnover will be in the 3-4x turnover per hour range.

3 - 4 turn overs per hour as compared to 5 - 6 .. I that a big deal?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

3 - 4 turn overs per hour as compared to 5 - 6 .. I that a big deal?

I was running my 120 at 1000 gph with an additional 2 wave makers to get the flow I wanted before moving up tank sizes.

That isn't Bad turnover. It's low enough that I personally wouldn't consider it an option for my tanks.

As said above, I'm running 3/4" pipe in a Herbie, on a 30 gallon Shallow frag tank. The gate valve is very close to wide open. You're looking at 4x volume with very little expansion room.

 

[Pondscum]

I was running my 120 at 1000 gph with an additional 2 wave makers to get the flow I wanted before moving up tank sizes.

That isn't Bad turnover. It's low enough that I personally wouldn't consider it an option for my tanks.

As said above, I'm running 3/4" pipe in a Herbie, on a 30 gallon Shallow frag tank. The gate valve is very close to wide open. You're looking at 4x volume with very little expansion room.

Thanks for all of your help. I guess I have to make my mind up to what risk level I'm comfortable with.. Lower flow rate or risk of overflow...

Thanks again

 

[csterling86]

Thanks for all of your help. I guess I have to make my mind up to what risk level I'm comfortable with.. Lower flow rate or risk of overflow...

Thanks again

Or don't use any of that over complicated crap.i use one big pipe no overflow an a cutoff on my pump Incase it runs dry.ten years never had an issue.an if it's setup right it can't flood anything.

 

[csterling86]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and have a question that I can't seem to find the answer for..

I'm converting my Durso drain to a Herbie for my 120 gallon corner overflowed tank
Currently there are 2 bulkheads in the corner overflow, the drain is 1 1/4" and the return is 3/4"

What I'm wondering is.. when I convert to Herbie style drain, should the main drain be 3/4" and the emergency by the 1 1/4" or vice versa and will the 3/4" be good enough for a goog flow rate.
I am planning to pipe the return up the back of the tank and leave it as 3/4"
I have a Neptune Cor 20 for a return pump

Run 3/4 for main 3/4 for return.1/1/4 for emergency.your gonna run a full syphon in the 3/4 u want your emergency to be able to flow more then your main.alao the whole point in an emergency is that it doesn't have a valve in it to make a syphon so it has less of a chance of that getting clogged as well.most tanks I've put together big an small 3/4 drain is enof anything bigger your just closing it way down to make a syphon so it's pointless.