Condensed QT recommendations?

[TheStrangler]

Ahoy all, I'm familiar with the standard QT procedure but I'm a little short on time before a trip to do the full length treatment. I have roughly a month of time to treat three incoming halichores wrasse and a pintail fairy wrasse. I could complete a full copper treatment but not the prazi/metro that would come after. I know wrasse can be somewhat resistant to some external protozoans so perhaps the month is better off with a different treatment plan? Theres no risk of the incoming fish immediately infecting my current fish as they'll be moved to their own display tank after quarantine but I'd still like to reduce risks as much as possible. If you only had a month what would you focus on treatment wise for wrasse specifically?

 

[Formulator]

I wouldn’t quarantine them at all if they are going into their own tank. Just put them in there and use the month you have for observation. If they do get sick, it will be quickly apparent and then you can treat specifically for that before you leave. If they don’t get sick, then you’re golden.

 

[Spare time]

I would do prazi in the display in that case.

 

[TheStrangler]

I wouldn’t quarantine them at all if they are going into their own tank. Just put them in there and use the month you have for observation. If they do get sick, it will be quickly apparent and then you can treat specifically for that before you leave. If they don’t get sick, then you’re golden.

While they are going into their own tank, I'd prefer to proactively treat. By the time symptoms show its sometimes already a losing battle. The risk to my whole system as a whole is minimal but I'd still like to get the incoming fish up to healthy. They might be fine, but I assume all stores systems are full of various diseases. If something broke out it'd be no work to just continue running the tank fallow but I've never had to do any sort of parasite or disease management and I'd like to stay blissfully ignorant of the pain it is.

I would do prazi in the display in that case.

Prazi's timeframe and effectiveness is nice. Why in the display instead of a quarantine tank? I suppose its not the biggest deal, just more water volume to treat. I don't want to forsake copper treatment, but some combination of prazi + metro might work better than nothing as well. Covering marine ick, velvet, and flukes seems to be a decent preventative.

 

[Spare time]

While they are going into their own tank, I'd prefer to proactively treat. By the time symptoms show its sometimes already a losing battle. The risk to my whole system as a whole is minimal but I'd still like to get the incoming fish up to healthy. They might be fine, but I assume all stores systems are full of various diseases. If something broke out it'd be no work to just continue running the tank fallow but I've never had to do any sort of parasite or disease management and I'd like to stay blissfully ignorant of the pain it is.


Prazi's timeframe and effectiveness is nice. Why in the display instead of a quarantine tank? I suppose its not the biggest deal, just more water volume to treat. I don't want to forsake copper treatment, but some combination of prazi + metro might work better than nothing as well. Covering marine ick, velvet, and flukes seems to be a decent preventative.

Copper needs 30 days at 81F. If you can't do a qt beyond 30 days and don't want to mix copper and prazi, it is safe to add to the display tank,

 

[TheStrangler]

I had considered hyposalinity rather than copper treatment as I could treat with prazi at the same time, and arrival salinity is already low anyway, but saw a few things that suggested wrasse aren't great candidates for hyposalinity treatment.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ahoy all, I'm familiar with the standard QT procedure but I'm a little short on time before a trip to do the full length treatment. I have roughly a month of time to treat three incoming halichores wrasse and a pintail fairy wrasse. I could complete a full copper treatment but not the prazi/metro that would come after. I know wrasse can be somewhat resistant to some external protozoans so perhaps the month is better off with a different treatment plan? Theres no risk of the incoming fish immediately infecting my current fish as they'll be moved to their own display tank after quarantine but I'd still like to reduce risks as much as possible. If you only had a month what would you focus on treatment wise for wrasse specifically?

First, you can skip the metro treatment as it is mostly redundant in coverage to the copper treatment. Flukes are much slower to kill than protozoan diseases, so I would just treat them with a standard 30 day copper treatment with Coppersafe or copper power and go with an in tank prazi treatment when you return.

Some people run Coppersafe and prazi at the same time, but I think that is risky, especially with wrasses.

 

[TheStrangler]

First, you can skip the metro treatment as it is mostly redundant in coverage to the copper treatment. Flukes are much slower to kill than protozoan diseases, so I would just treat them with a standard 30 day copper treatment with Coppersafe or copper power and go with an in tank prazi treatment when you return.

Some people run Coppersafe and prazi at the same time, but I think that is risky, especially with wrasses.

I'll go with this. Not sure why I was thinking that I'd lose the effects of completing the copper treatment if not following through with prazi as well. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it.

as always thank you everyone.

 

[MnFish1]

Ahoy all, I'm familiar with the standard QT procedure but I'm a little short on time before a trip to do the full length treatment. I have roughly a month of time to treat three incoming halichores wrasse and a pintail fairy wrasse. I could complete a full copper treatment but not the prazi/metro that would come after. I know wrasse can be somewhat resistant to some external protozoans so perhaps the month is better off with a different treatment plan? Theres no risk of the incoming fish immediately infecting my current fish as they'll be moved to their own display tank after quarantine but I'd still like to reduce risks as much as possible. If you only had a month what would you focus on treatment wise for wrasse specifically?

I would not do a short QT period. If push comes to shove, merely add prazipro and copper - but - the way to minimize risks is either hire/have someone manage your QT while you're on your trip - or - delay the order of the fish.

 

[Formulator]

They might be fine, but I assume all stores systems are full of various diseases.

I’ve never quarantined a fish in 9 years in the hobby. Never had a single fish disease. I think a lot of it has to do with the health of a system and immunity of the fish community. But to each their own, and I know I’m playing with fire…

 

[TheStrangler]

I’ve never quarantined a fish in 9 years in the hobby. Never had a single fish disease. I think a lot of it has to do with the health of a system and immunity of the fish community. But to each their own, and I know I’m playing with fire…

I've never had anything infectious stick around. I've had fish fatalities that could have probably been avoided if I knew more about treating 15 years ago though. I figure its just a matter of time so I'll do what I can to minimize risk. Everything gets some sort of QT now though, and with a fresh system it wouldn't be the end of the world to have to treat in tank, but I'm just going to skip all of that if I can.

I'm going to go with the full copper course in QT, transfer to display, and then treat with prazi a week or so later. Setting up my 40g quarantine trough now for the first time. Its got a really large foot print so I'm expecting chill QT. Using seeded sponge/media in a fluval FX4 canister filter, hopefully it'll be a little more relaxed than the twice daily paranoid testing I did in a 20g tank.

 

[MnFish1]

I’ve never quarantined a fish in 9 years in the hobby. Never had a single fish disease. I think a lot of it has to do with the health of a system and immunity of the fish community. But to each their own, and I know I’m playing with fire…

If you look at statistics from this site, about 50% of people do any kind of quarantine and have had 'no problems'. So - I don't think you're playing with fire on that. However, I think its incumbent on you to help figure out why you have been able to do this, where others with good water, feeding, etc - add a fish and the entire tank is wiped out (fish-wise) - I have my own ideas as to why - but very interested in yours

 

[Formulator]

If you look at statistics from this site, about 50% of people do any kind of quarantine and have had 'no problems'. So - I don't think you're playing with fire on that. However, I think its incumbent on you to help figure out why you have been able to do this, where others with good water, feeding, etc - add a fish and the entire tank is wiped out (fish-wise) - I have my own ideas as to why - but very interested in yours

I give a lot of credit to my LFS. I’m fortunate to have an excellent store and know the owner well. They take excellent care of fish and aggressively treat anything suspicious upon arrival. I also agree with a lot of the theories Paul B has regarding fish immune system care and that stressed fish are most susceptible. I have a plethora of caves in my rockwork and feed only high quality frozen whole foods. I also have a very strong biome and have never added any chemical “fix” type products which I think have serious and sometimes long-term negative consequences on tank biomes that people often don’t acknowledge.

 

[Spare time]

I’ve never quarantined a fish in 9 years in the hobby. Never had a single fish disease. I think a lot of it has to do with the health of a system and immunity of the fish community. But to each their own, and I know I’m playing with fire…

It's kinda like saying "I've smoked for 30 years and still don't have cancer"

 

[Formulator]

It's kinda like saying "I've smoked for 30 years and still don't have cancer"

I don’t think that is a fair analogy. Most cancer is caused by the accumulation of harmful DNA mutations over time and impacted by genetic and environmental factors that make a person more or less likely to resist or repair those mutations. Each fish I add unquarantined is not additive to my likelihood of getting a pathogen. I liken it more to skydiving. With every dive there is a possibility that the parachute doesn’t open, but with preventive measures and careful inspection of equipment before each dive, I significantly lower the probability of failure.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don’t think that is a fair analogy. Most cancer is caused by the accumulation of harmful DNA mutations over time and impacted by genetic and environmental factors that make a person more or less likely to resist or repair those mutations. Each fish I add unquarantined is not additive to my likelihood of getting a pathogen. I liken it more to skydiving. With every dive there is a possibility that the parachute doesn’t open, but with preventive measures and careful inspection of equipment before each dive, I significantly lower the probability of failure.

A better analogy would be: "I've had people with Covid coughing near me and I haven't caught it yet." The trouble is that the supply chain for marine fish is full of disease issues - the various stops a fish makes along the way from a reef to your home can introduce infectious disease from other fish. IMO - not quarantining new fish is more like Russian Roulette.

 

[Formulator]

A better analogy would be: "I've had people with Covid coughing near me and I haven't caught it yet." The trouble is that the supply chain for marine fish is full of disease issues - the various stops a fish makes along the way from a reef to your home can introduce infectious disease from other fish. IMO - not quarantining new fish is more like Russian Roulette.

I can’t really argue with an expert such as yourself, but I know there are others like me who do not quarantine and have had success for many years. I think there is more to it than pure luck.

 

[TheStrangler]

I can’t really argue with an expert such as yourself, but I know there are others like me who do not quarantine and have had success for many years. I think there is more to it than pure luck.

While I can't agree with you, I can't disagree that proper nutrition and care is a key factor in keeping your fish healthy. Maybe you're right that by providing the conditions that you do, if a fish is not yet visibly ill, your care is able to allow its own immune system to recuperate and prevent some infections from becoming lethal. But its impossible to create a methodical checklist for everyone that describes every single decision that you made over the years to get your tank to the way it is. I think the only realistic way for everyone to keep out disease is through a proper quarantine. I hope you continue to avoid issues, but like others have said statistically its just a matter of time.

 

[Formulator]

While I can't agree with you, I can't disagree that proper nutrition and care is a key factor in keeping your fish healthy. Maybe you're right that by providing the conditions that you do, if a fish is not yet visibly ill, your care is able to allow its own immune system to recuperate and prevent some infections from becoming lethal. But its impossible to create a methodical checklist for everyone that describes every single decision that you made over the years to get your tank to the way it is. I think the only realistic way for everyone to keep out disease is through a proper quarantine. I hope you continue to avoid issues, but like others have said statistically its just a matter of time.

I think those are fair statements and I wouldn’t urge any new reefer to follow my methods. Just an interesting topic since we were there. I think it started for me many years ago due to space and financial constraints. Now those barriers don’t exist for me, but I got stuck in a way. I’m also not really adding fish to my tank on a regular basis anymore. If I were to setup a brand new system, I’d be open to reconsidering quarantine protocols.

 

[MnFish1]

I give a lot of credit to my LFS. I’m fortunate to have an excellent store and know the owner well. They take excellent care of fish and aggressively treat anything suspicious upon arrival. I also agree with a lot of the theories Paul B has regarding fish immune system care and that stressed fish are most susceptible. I have a plethora of caves in my rockwork and feed only high quality frozen whole foods. I also have a very strong biome and have never added any chemical “fix” type products which I think have serious and sometimes long-term negative consequences on tank biomes that people often don’t acknowledge.

Exactly.....