Clever and/or engineer type people! Impossible or not, Can it be done??

[Battlecorals]

So, I've been seriously thinking about setting up another small display in my office which is underneath my grow-out facility. Been going back and forth on this a while actually, but what I'd love to do, if not just "possible" but 100% "floodproof possible", is have it connected to my main system upstairs. the plumbing will not be easy but that part I'm confident I can manage. The actual total execution, I'm not so sure about yet.

I'm sure I am not the first one to ponder this concept, but I'd like to know if anyone has either done this or may have some "smarts" on how I can pull it off. Sometimes in situations like this, someone will just say, "Oh sure, you just need a Blankety blank" and you're good to go. lol

The challenge clearly, is getting water to circulate safely, from my sump above to the tank below.

My first thought was modeled off of how a surge device works. Somehow have the water from the upper reservoir, circulate with sump water. maybe a separate overflow on the reservoir and it would continuously cycle water from the sump. And keep a minimum amount of water in the reservoir below the low drain point of the surge that would always be cycling sump water through. The turnover for the display would be pretty low but I think it may work, or some variation of this notion at least. And that's why I am reaching out on this one. I'm sure there's a way it could be done but I can't quite get there lol

The water level in the display tank would always fluctuate as the surge reservoir filled and drained, but I don't know that I'd really care so much. If that was the only snag id be very ok with it in fact. But I'd love to get some other ideas and concepts and really just spitball a little.

maybe ill work up a little diagram as well that might help to clarify the idea.

Ultimately in its simplest form, id like to plumb a new display to the sump on the floor above it rather than set up a whole new system

what do you guys think? can it be done?

 

[Peace River]

What if you think of it as a "display sump" downstairs and the aquarium upstairs would be the glass box where you put your filtration?

 

[HotRocks]

So, I've been seriously thinking about setting up another small display in my office which is underneath my grow-out facility. Been going back and forth on this a while actually, but what I'd love to do, if not "just possible" but 100% "floodproof possible", is have it connected to my main system upstairs. the plumbing will not be easy but that part I'm confident I can manage. The actual total execution, I'm not so sure about yet.

I'm sure I am not the first one to ponder this concept, but I'd like to know if anyone has either done this or may have some "smarts" on how I can pull it off. Sometimes in situations like this, someone will just say, "Oh sure, you just need a Blankety blank" and you're good to go. lol

The challenge clearly, is getting water to circulate safely, from my sump above to the tank below.

My first thought was modeled off of how a surge device works. Somehow have the water from the upper reservoir, circulate with sump water. maybe a separate overflow on the reservoir and it would continuously cycle water from the sump. And keep a minimum amount of water in the reservoir below the low drain point of the surge that would always be cycling sump water through. The turnover for the display would be pretty low but I think it may work, or some variation of this notion at least. And that's why I am reaching out on this one. I'm sure there's a way it could be done but I can't quite get there lol

The water level in the display tank would always fluctuate as the surge reservoir filled and drained, but I don't know that I'd really care so much. If that was the only snag id be very ok with it in fact. But I'd love to get some other ideas and concepts and really just spitball a little.

maybe ill work up a little diagram as well that might help to clarify the idea.

Ultimately in its simplest form, id like to plumb a new display to the sump on the floor above it rather than set up a whole new system

what do you guys think? can it be done?

I have never done this but have considered a remote basement sump. So wouldn’t This be the same exact concept? The office tank becomes the remote “sump” which is just a fancy lit sump with the craziest SPS around!

Im sure your concern is the sump volume in the aquaculture facility upstairs has a much larger volume and if something goes wrong it’s a huge mess

 

[Battlecorals]

What if you think of it as a "display sump" downstairs and the aquarium upstairs would be the glass box where you put your filtration?

thanks for the post! well, that is pretty much the idea, but I want it to be tied into the main sump upstairs. Not a separate stand-alone sump tank. So pumping up, then draining back down like a traditional tank sump setup, with no chance of flood, will be tricky because i can't have a conventional" overflow out of my sump like a display tank. well, I suppose could but the risk of flood is high. Any time I shut the main return pump/s off the tank downstairs would flood.

Unlesssssss, I did install a sump on the downstairs tank only for the purpose of catching any excess water that may flow down. But I really like the idea of overflow or holes in the new tank. adding a sump below would be a compromise for sure.


I mean I could easily set up a separate sump above, but if I was going to that I'd just put the sump under the tank.

My goal is to have it tied into my existing system up there.

I should add, I have absolutely no interest in any sort of an automated pumping system that regulates water to and from tank to upper sump.

 

[rushbattle]

In this case I would do two separate systems with peristaltic pumps exchanging water between them like folks call an auto-water change. Then all you need is auto-top-off but no dosing, reactors, etc. Remember, gravity always finds a way!

 

[Battlecorals]

In this case I would do two separate systems with peristaltic pumps exchanging water between them like folks call an auto-water change. Then all you need is auto-top-off but no dosing, reactors, etc. Remember, gravity always finds a way!

LOL from the above post, I'm sure we crossed posts here,


" I should add, I have absolutely no interest in any sort of an automated pumping system that regulates water to and from tank to upper sump. "

I really appreciate the input. ill be honest, that was one of my first thoughts and I'm sure it can be done, but these kinds of setups scare me too much. I'd never be calm. I need something that relies on gravity rather than anything mechanical.

 

[Battlecorals]

I have never done this but have considered a remote basement sump. So wouldn’t This be the same exact concept? The office tank becomes the remote “sump” which is just a fancy lit sump with the craziest SPS around!

Im sure your concern is the sump volume in the aquaculture facility upstairs has a much larger volume and if something goes wrong it’s a huge mess

indeed! the concept is simple enough but the actual mechanics are not so much.

 

[HotRocks]

indeed! the concept is simple enough but the actual mechanics are not so much.

Sure, what are the rough gallons of the existing sump and the desired display tank?

 

[justingraham]

So by adding the new display tank it would in theory be the lowest part of your aquarium system?

 

[rushbattle]

LOL from the above post, I'm sure we crossed posts here,


" I should add, I have absolutely no interest in any sort of an automated pumping system that regulates water to and from tank to upper sump. "

I really appreciate the input. ill be honest, that was one of my first thoughts and I'm sure it can be done, but these kinds of setups scare me too much. I'd never be calm. I need something that relies on gravity rather than anything mechanical.

Lol, ok well I agree with your concern! We did some hydraulics problems like this in school, the fluid always ends up at the lowest point or there is a flood. Sorry I can’t be helpful!

 

[Battlecorals]

Sure, what are the rough gallons of the existing sump and the desired display tank?

Sump is 10' x 42" x 20" high. a little over 300 gallons I believe display would be under 200 for sure thinking like 145-180

 

[Battlecorals]

So by adding the new display tank it would in theory be the lowest part of your aquarium system?

Yep

 

[Battlecorals]

Lol, ok well I agree with your concern! We did some hydraulics problems like this in school, the fluid always ends up at the lowest point or there is a flood. Sorry I can’t be helpful!

Right! this is why I like the idea of a smaller reservoir for the "surge" mechanism, and I use that term lightly. the return Surge would be more like a slower siphon through 1" pipe. at no point in this iteration would all the sump water end up downstairs. Only water from the downstairs tank would fill the surge tank, above the drain hole. I hope i am making sense lol

 

[pgravis]

I think approach it like a basement sump setup-with some changes! If possible, add an overflow to your system upstairs barely below water line so it won’t syphon hundreds of gallons of backflow. Have that drain to an actual sump (with a gate gate valve to limit flow downstairs-try and match that flow with a return pump) on the first floor, then run an external pump, add a manifold that splits floor to your first floor display, and have the rest pump back upstairs to that system. It adds a tank, but I think it makes it possible. In my system, I have a sump in my basement, external pump manifold shoot off to basement fuge, and two other lines go to first floor for the display and a mangrove/anemone tank-so one sump feeding 3 tanks, all drain back into common sump.

 

[Battlecorals]

here's a super crude drawing that may help clarify what I am thinking

figure the reservoir is 20-40 gallons at most the "surge water" will be the only water that goes back to the display once the float is activated and the valve opens up.


The water marked "constant Circulation" is sump water fed to the reservoir constantly at a very low rate and drain out the overflow.

the "surge water" will be pumped from the display faster than the overflow can handle so it fills up the reservoir thus activating the float and releasing that amount back to the display.





does that make sense?

 

[Battlecorals]

I think approach it like a basement sump setup-with some changes! If possible, add an overflow to your system upstairs barely below water line so it won’t syphon hundreds of gallons of backflow. Have that drain to an actual sump (with a gate gate valve to limit flow downstairs-try and match that flow with a return pump) on the first floor, then run an external pump, add a manifold that splits floor to your first floor display, and have the rest pump back upstairs to that system. It adds a tank, but I think it makes it possible. In my system, I have a sump in my basement, external pump manifold shoot off to basement fuge, and two other lines go to first floor for the display and a mangrove/anemone tank-so one sump feeding 3 tanks, all drain back into common sump.

Thanks a lot for the post! I definitely get your concept. Thing is the water line goes way up when i shut the pumps off and i do that pretty regularly. would be a flood at some point guaranteed. I don't have the room for a large sump downstairs. and matching flow rates with values is also way to scary to me lol.

 

[MrWheelock]

This is definitely perplexing. I thought to add an overflow to the highest level of the sump, but that would greatly depend on the level of your sump when your main pump shuts off.

 

[phatduckk]

Isn’t it essentially an automatic water change system (except input and output are the upstairs sump)?

 

[Kevin Duprey]

here's a super crude drawing that may help clarify what I am thinking

figure the reservoir is 20-40 gallons at most the "surge water" will be the only water that goes back to the display once the float is activated and the valve opens up.


The water marked "constant Circulation" is sump water fed to the reservoir constantly at a very low rate and drain out the overflow.

the "surge water" will be pumped from the display faster than the overflow can handle so it fills up the reservoir thus activating the float and releasing that amount back to the display.





does that make sense?

This works for preventing the flood downstairs in your office, but potentially shifts the problem to a flood upstairs that could be more damaging. If the pumps upstairs turn off, or fail while the office pump remains on, you will eventually drain the downstairs office tank into the upstairs sump, which I assume would eventually overflow given the volumes you mention. This would take a fair amount of time, depending on the flow rate out of the surge overflow, but unattended, it will eventually do as I describe. Either that or the downstairs circulation pump will eventually run dry and then fail.

The fix for this is to have the office circulation pump tied to a level switch in the upstairs sump. Once the sump reaches this level due to the upstairs pumps being off, the downstairs pump would be switched off as well.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

here's a super crude drawing that may help clarify what I am thinking

figure the reservoir is 20-40 gallons at most the "surge water" will be the only water that goes back to the display once the float is activated and the valve opens up.


The water marked "constant Circulation" is sump water fed to the reservoir constantly at a very low rate and drain out the overflow.

the "surge water" will be pumped from the display faster than the overflow can handle so it fills up the reservoir thus activating the float and releasing that amount back to the display.





does that make sense?

For your surge are you going Carlson surge bucket?
It's named after Bruce Carlson