Chris Meckley's Kalk dosing suggestion and strange result

[pledosophy]

I watched the Melev's reef video with Chris Meckley from ACI and thought his method of dosing kalk (having a DOS supply kalk whenever the pH is below 8.3 controlled by the amount the tank evaporates daily) was interesting; so I thought I would try it on a test tank. The tank is just rock, sand, and water. No coral. It is fully cycled and fed.

My CA is pH is 8, CA is 400, and ALK is 14, Mg is around 1300.

Not really what I was expecting. I live in an old house, close to a freeway so it is not that the house is sealed up, but there could be C02 from cars passing 1/4 mile away. I have a higher turnover with powerheads, about 110x per hour.

Is my limiting factor going to be the C02? I am curious if a scrubber might help. Not sure of other reasons why the pH could be this low in the tank.

Any ideas?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Assuming your numbers are accurate, and I have no reason to doubt them, then, IMO, it shows this is a flawed method when alk demand is not high and CO2 is prevalent. It’s a shame they didn’t bother to mention this, and instead made the exact mistake being discussed in the big thread in the Chem forum today: inappropriately extrapolating personal experiences to other tanks without understanding why that might be inappropriate.

 

[pledosophy]

Assuming your numbers are accurate, and I have no reason to doubt them, then, IMO, it shows this is a flawed method when alk demand is not high and CO2 is prevalent. It’s a shame they didn’t bother to mention this, and instead made the exact mistake being discussed in the big thread in the Chem forum today: inappropriately extrapolating personal experiences to other tanks without understanding why that might be inappropriate.

In fairness to them, they might have. I didn't watch the whole two hours or whatever it was. I just thought I would test it out for myself on an extra tank I had up.

I should go read the big thread. 22 years in I have watched several get led away with new fads, and I have followed a few myself. Experimenting has always been fun for me.

 

[jhuntstl]

Ideally imo... you want to exhaust all other methods of scrubbing CO2 before using kalk to maintain whatever elevated pH you're shooting for. And even then you may find yourself with very high alkalinity. Especially if you're going to let dosing be controlled by a pH probe. I've experimented with this myself and did not notice any issues with the high or frequently changing alk. But as already suggested, your mileage may vary.

 

[pledosophy]

Ideally imo... you want to exhaust all other methods of scrubbing CO2 before using kalk to maintain whatever elevated pH you're shooting for. And even then you may find yourself with very high alkalinity. Especially if you're going to let dosing be controlled by a pH probe. I've experimented with this myself and did not notice any issues with the high or frequently changing alk. But as already suggested, your mileage may vary.

Besides running an airline from outside to the tank, using a C02 scrubber on the skimmer, having the doors/window to the house open often, and having house plants what other forms of C02 scrubbing are working for you?

 

[jhuntstl]

Besides running an airline from outside to the tank, using a C02 scrubber on the skimmer, having the doors/window to the house open often, and having house plants what other forms of C02 scrubbing are working for you?

For the average person, everything you listed is about as much as you can do. If you want to take it a step further, ERV/HRVs are a great option. From there I think your ability to manage CO2 at a certain level in your home becomes more realistic.

 

[Rwade]

Am I the only one that noticed the no coral statement? If there’s no coral, then there’s no reason to try to get to the 8.3 PH level and there is nothing in the tank to uptake the alkalinity, so any Alk dosed just keeps increasing.

 

[areefer01]

Assuming your numbers are accurate, and I have no reason to doubt them, then, IMO, it shows this is a flawed method when alk demand is not high and CO2 is prevalent. It’s a shame they didn’t bother to mention this, and instead made the exact mistake being discussed in the big thread in the Chem forum today: inappropriately extrapolating personal experiences to other tanks without understanding why that might be inappropriate.

But the post count and like and love and bells and views is so high how could it possibly be wrong?

Teasing - I hope your day is going well.

 

[jhuntstl]

But the post count and like and love and bells and views is so high how could it possibly be wrong?

Teasing - I hope your day is going well.

LoL!!!

If only we could rely on upvotes, likes, and thumbs up to prove a method correct. The reality is those who experiment, provide feedback, and contribute to the best of their ability... can potentially validate or disprove such methods in any meaningful way.

Am I the only one that noticed the no coral statement? If there’s no coral, then there’s no reason to try to get to the 8.3 PH level and there is nothing in the tank to uptake the alkalinity, so any Alk dosed just keeps increasing.

I did notice this. He/she mentioned this was a test tank and his/her signature suggested they have been in the hobby since 2001. So I believe this to be calculated experimentation. My understanding is the OP is attempting to understand their ability to maintain pH with kalkwasser per ambient CO2 in their home.

 

[pledosophy]

So I owe Chris an apology. After doing some more reading and watching of his video's (the whole two hours worth not the first 30 minutes) Chris does talk about their being an increase in alkalinity and it slowly coming back down over time. He also talks about the need to supplement calcium later down the line.

After a few trials I am slowly converting my 50g over to a hybrid of his method. So far I am pretty impressed. The corals in my tank are looking a bit happier, my pH is up and much more consistent, and my alk is rising much more subtly.

If things continue this well, I will make a thread documenting on how I scaled the process down from an aquaculture facilities methods to my own home tank.

Cheers

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I owe Chris an apology. After doing some more reading and watching of his video's (the whole two hours worth not the first 30 minutes) Chris does talk about their being an increase in alkalinity and it slowly coming back down over time. He also talks about the need to supplement calcium later down the line.

After a few trials I am slowly converting my 50g over to a hybrid of his method. So far I am pretty impressed. The corals in my tank are looking a bit happier, my pH is up and much more consistent, and my alk is rising much more subtly.

If things continue this well, I will make a thread documenting on how I scaled the process down from an aquaculture facilities methods to my own home tank.

Cheers

Two issue I have with this method;

1. He uses it in a system with so much demand that kalkwasser is not the only calcium and alk method used, while folks trying to imitate this method with far less demand are going to get a very different response, involving very high alk or excessive precipitation of calcium carbonate.

2. the calcium comment is not sensible. I wrote to him about the calcium comment because it makes no sense. He refused to respond to that direct question, and just said other stuff. Kalkwasser necessarily overdoses calcium relative to alk, not the other way around.

 

[pcorpion]

Two issue I have with this method;

1. He uses it in a system with so much demand that kalkwasser is not the only calcium and alk method used, while folks trying to imitate this method with far less demand are going to get a very different response, involving very high alk or excessive precipitation of calcium carbonate.

2. the calcium comment is not sensible. I wrote to him about the calcium comment because it makes no sense. He refused to respond to that direct question, and just said other stuff. Kalkwasser necessarily overdoses calcium relative to alk, not the other way around.

what would be the method to get or keep a higher ph in your system?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

what would be the method to get or keep a higher ph in your system?

Are you asking what I used, or what could someone use?

I used only kalkwasser (and macroalgae for other reasons).

Other methods include skimmer inlet pipes outside, CO2 scrubber on skimmer inlet, and growing macroalgae.