Chloride (lower) and Sulfur (too high) ICP

[Miami Reef]

My salinity tested 1.0264 two weeks ago when I checked it with my tropic Marin hydrometer. Not sure why ATI ICP shows it is a little lower. I will check the salinity again today or tomorrow.

I use Red Sea Blue bucket and instant ocean purple salt. Lately I’ve been using instant ocean with some muriatic acid to lower the alk in the water change.

I used to use sodium bisulfate in the past to lower alk, but I haven’t in a while.


I dose sodium hydroxide, calcium chloride, and balling part C

I use felt filter socks that I wash in my washing machines with extra rinse cycles. I alternate with 2 sets 2x per week. I infrequently add some plain bleach. The skimmers foam a bit when I change the socks. Could there be soap residue that’s adding sulfate/sulfur?


Here’s the Oceamo ICP I sent on December 2023:

Here’s the ATI result from today.

Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t think there could be enough of a soap residue to move the sulfate value. The sulfate might reflect starting values from the salt mix, or maybe the formulation of the part C.. I wouldn’t worry much about it since it isn’t off by much.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I just got another ICP from Oceamo. Results came today. What do you think of the sulfate levels now?

7/2/24

Is there any concern with my level of sulfate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It certainly is high, but I do not know how high is too high.

Can you list everything you dose?

@Christoph christoph, do you see any normal products that correlate with high sulfate? (Aside from Epsom salt)?

 

[Miami Reef]

It certainly is high, but I do not know how high is too high.

Can you list everything you dose?

@Christoph christoph, do you see any normal products that correlate with high sulfate? (Aside from Epsom salt)?

Sure.

Alkalinity: Sodium hydroxide 283g/ gallon
Calcium chloride: 500g/ gallon
Balling part C: 182g/gallon

(Dose 3 parts equally to maintain or raise alkalinity).

I very recently (last month) started using a magnesium mix. It is mostly magnesium chloride and about 2 cups of magnesium sulfate in a gallon. I add about 200mL after I finish a gallon of each 3 part.

I probably only dosed 600mL of the gallon solution.

I dose vinegar or vodka depending on my mood to maintain nitrates or feed bacteria, coral, sponges. Lately (for the past several months) it’s been only distilled vinegar.

I use instant ocean purple only for the salt.


Sometimes I use GFO, but I haven’t use it in the past few weeks.

Sodium silicate about 4mL once a week.

Ozone. ROX 0.8 activated carbon

I’ve been using tropic Marin K for a few months. I dose about 20mL once a week. I VERY recently started Tropic Marin A, but I only ever dosed 40-60mL of the product, and my trace values are still on the lower end, and I’ve had the sulfate creep before I even purchased the A bottle.

I under dose the trace elements. I plan to increase the dose since my minor/trace elements are still on the lower end.

I have a DIY Iron and Manganese Hexahydrate mix that I dose once a week.


That’s it. I shortly experimented with ammonium bicarbonate, Red Sea AB+, BRS Reef Chili, the tawain coral food, but I’ve had the creep up before I used any of them.

 

[Christoph]

It certainly is high, but I do not know how high is too high.

Can you list everything you dose?

@Christoph christoph, do you see any normal products that correlate with high sulfate? (Aside from Epsom salt)?

Interestingly we see quite often elevated Sulfate levels in US samples, it is very uncommon in Europe.

I suspect there are some salt mixes on the market that have a high sulfate content. Another common source are sulfur denitrators (not the case here).

OP should not use any epsom salt (mag sulfate) for dosing magnesium, only the chloride.

BR,
Christoph

 

[Miami Reef]

Interestingly we see quite often elevated Sulfate levels in US samples, it is very uncommon in Europe.

I suspect there are some salt mixes on the market that have a high sulfate content. Another common source are sulfur denitrators (not the case here).

OP should not use any epsom salt (mag sulfate) for dosing magnesium, only the chloride.

BR,
Christoph

How about Balling Part C? I genuinely suspect it’s coming from there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How about Balling Part C? I genuinely suspect it’s coming from there.

It’s certainly is (and should be) a big part of Balling Part C. But it is hard to know if the trade off of dropping sulfate is better than keeping up things like potassium.

Do you do water changes, and if so, what mix?

 

[Miami Reef]

It’s certainly is (and should be) a big part of Balling Part C. But it is hard to know if the trade off of dropping sulfate is better than keeping up things like potassium.

Do you do water changes, and if so, what mix?

Yes. I change water. I use instant ocean purple. I change 15% every 1-2 weeks.

Oddly enough, the potassium in my tank seems a bit low, despite water changes AND balling part C.

I never rinse my frozen food.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

What would you do if this was your tank? I was considering dropping the balling part C and just using the 2 part with the magnesium mix.

Does this sound okay? Or would you continue with balling part C?

I don’t know what I should do. I’d really appreciate your input. I’ll do whatever you tell me. I trust your advice.

I use regular instant ocean that I purchased during Black Friday last year.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

What would you do if this was your tank? I was considering dropping the balling part C and just using the 2 part with the magnesium mix.

Does this sound okay? Or would you continue with balling part C?

I don’t know what I should do. I’d really appreciate your input. I’ll do whatever you tell me. I trust your advice.

I use regular instant ocean that I purchased during Black Friday last year.

I don’t have a perfect answer, but I’d probably stop the Part C, even if it’s not the cause of the issue (but aside from the salt, I cannot see what else could be).

 

[TeeJay87]

I used to use sodium bisulfate in the past to lower alk, but I haven’t in a while.

I realize you said this on March 29th, but I think it could be the cause of the high sulfate. It looks like your first ICP (~March 29th) didn’t give a value for sulphate, we just have the recent value.

I’ve been using @Randy Holmes-Farley method for reducing alkalinity with sodium bisulfate through water changes. From his thread (linked here):

“Sodium bisulfate is NaHSO4.

In seawater, it releases H+:

NaHSO4 ---> Na+ + H+ + SO4--

The H+ is what reduces the alkalinity, and the Na+ and SO4-- are not any concern:”

Possibly the sodium bisulfate additions in the past raised sulphate (SO4–) and your recent ICP reading reflects that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That’s an excellent point that it raises sulfate. I did not recall Miami doing that.

Let’s calculate. Suppose we reduce alk by 2.8 dKH in each batch of new salt water (we can scale the results as needed). That means we added 1 meq/L of both acid and sulfate.

1 meq/L of sulfate (at 96 g/mole) = 96 mg/L.

That's not a huge addition, and it won’t accumulate if added to new salt water that replaces old salt water, but may be part of the story.

 

[Miami Reef]

I don’t use sodium bisulfate anymore. I haven’t used it in a LONG time, and I only ever used it to lower alk in a salt mix.

I only use muriatic acid, but I haven’t used that in a long time either. I’ve been doing consistent weekly water changes with NO muriatic acid/bisulfate additions for months and months. I even did a 15% water change 3 days prior to the latest ICP test.

I highly suspect it’s coming from the balling part C. I go through my 3 part fairly quickly, and I’m finding myself adding a gallon of balling part c about 1-2 times a month. Into my 260 gallon.

It’s spread out through daily additions, of course.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t use sodium bisulfate anymore. I haven’t used it in a LONG time, and I only ever used it to lower alk in a salt mix.

I only use muriatic acid, but I haven’t used that in a long time either. I’ve been doing consistent weekly water changes with NO muriatic acid/bisulfate additions for months and months.

I highly suspect it’s coming from the balling part C. I go through my 3 part fairly quickly, and I’m finding myself adding a gallon of balling part c about 1-2 times a month. Into my 260 gallon.

It’s spread out through daily additions, of course.

Ok, sounds good.

 

[TeeJay87]

That’s an excellent point that it raises sulfate. I did not recall Miami doing that.

Let’s calculate. Suppose we reduce alk by 2.8 dKH in each batch of new salt water (we can scale the results as needed). That means we added 1 meq/L of both acid and sulfate.

1 meq/L of sulfate (at 96 g/mole) = 96 mg/L.

That's not a huge addition, and it won’t accumulate if added to new salt water that replaces old salt water, but may be part of the story.

Could you please show the calculation for the increase in sulfate if a 300g bottle of sodium bisulfate is added to 90g worth of water over time. I’ve used up a 300g bottle of seachem’s acid buffer to reduce Alk, and while plenty has been water changed out, I’m curious what the maximum impact would be.

 

[TeeJay87]

@Miami Reef

Have you been able to rule out whether your sulphate value could be due to your salt mix? Based on the Oceamo ICP, the target sulphate is 2600mg/l. Perhaps you got a batch or two of salt with elevated sulphate to 3600mg/l.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Miami Reef

Have you been able to rule out whether your sulphate value could be due to your salt mix? Based on the Oceamo ICP, the target sulphate is 2600mg/l. Perhaps you got a batch or two of salt with elevated sulphate to 3600mg/l.

I was considering that, but I don’t think it would be helpful. Many people sent ICP’s of their IO, and I don’t think I’ve seen one with elevated sulfate.

I go through salt like water, especially now as I’ve been doing more water changes to restore the ion balance. A normal sulfate ICP of IO wouldn’t rule out a possible sulfate contamination from previous IO salts that I’ve used that were in different boxes/batches.


Interestingly, I would love to send out a diluted sample of Balling Part C to see if sulfate is in the recommended range for their product, but I don’t think it will be easy to determine how much sulfate is excess (since it should contain sulfate, just not too much). It’s a fine line to cross, and it will be hard to translate it with normal dosing amounts and salinity adjustments.


I think it’s safe to assume IO is not likely the culprit since so many people have used it and tested it. Since my sulfate seems to be accumulating (rising through a period of time), I think it makes logical sense that the balling part c might have a bit too much sulfate. That’s the only product I consistently dosed that should contain significant sulfate.

I plan to use the standard 3 part (with magnesium containing proper sulfate and chloride ratios) and changing lots of water. I’m curious to see if the ionic balance will align better with a future ICP.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could you please show the calculation for the increase in sulfate if a 300g bottle of sodium bisulfate is added to 90g worth of water over time. I’ve used up a 300g bottle of seachem’s acid buffer to reduce Alk, and while plenty has been water changed out, I’m curious what the maximum impact would be.

It is added directly to the tank or to new salt water?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was considering that, but I don’t think it would be helpful. Many people sent ICP’s of their IO, and I don’t think I’ve seen one with elevated sulfate.

I go through salt like water, especially now as I’ve been doing more water changes to restore the ion balance. A normal sulfate ICP of IO wouldn’t rule out a possible sulfate contamination from previous IO salts that I’ve used that were in different boxes/batches.


Interestingly, I would love to send out a diluted sample of Balling Part C to see if sulfate is in the recommended range for their product, but I don’t think it will be easy to determine how much sulfate is excess (since it should contain sulfate, just not too much). It’s a fine line to cross, and it will be hard to translate it with normal dosing amounts and salinity adjustments.


I think it’s safe to assume IO is not likely the culprit since so many people have used it and tested it. Since my sulfate seems to be accumulating (rising through a period of time), I think it makes logical sense that the balling part c might have a bit too much sulfate. That’s the only product I consistently dosed that should contain significant sulfate.

I plan to use the standard 3 part (with magnesium containing proper sulfate and chloride ratios) and changing lots of water. I’m curious to see if the ionic balance will align better with a future ICP.

Sulfate should be the third highest ingredient in it after magnesium and chloride.