Carbon dosing without creating a bacteria bloom

[TLCarrico]

Question: Of the carbon dosing methods listed below (or others that I am not aware of), is there one that is less likely to cause a bacteria bloom when addressing higher-than-normal nitrates?

• Red Sea – NoPox
• Vinegar
• No-Pox Home Brew – 50% vinegar (5% acidity), 37.5% vodka (80 proof), 12.5% RODI

Background Information: I started carbon dosing with Red Sea NoPox but moved to a No-Pox-like recipe (50% vinegar (5% acidity), 37.5% vodka (80 proof), 12.5% RODI) posted on this forum by TangingOut to reduce costs. I recently increased my feeding which increased my nitrates. I then increased my carbon dosing to address the nitrate increase. This resulted in a bacteria bloom (white stringy substance on rocks). When I clean the rocks and lower my carbon dosing, the bloom goes away, but my nitrates increase faster than my normal water changes address. I did not experience bacteria blooms with Red Sea No-Pox, but I was not dosing as much as I am currently with the homebrew recipe.

While the logical solution would be to not feed as much, I wanted to first see if there is one method of carbon dosing that is less likely to cause blooms before going that route.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Bottom line regarding avoiding a bacterial bloom is to start with a moderate dose (like half of what you think you might need) and then increase slowly.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

What are your actual nitrate (and phosphate) levels, and what made you decide to try to lower nitrates?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have not seen evidence that the type of organic chosen impacts the chance of a bloom, which mostly happens from adding too much or too fast.

 

[killer2001]

Spread out the amount you dose throughout the day if you can. For example, if you need a total of 20mL daily, do 5mL - 4 times a day 6 hours apart. I have my DIY NoPox recipe on a doser for over a year now and never had one bacterial bloom.

 

[TLCarrico]

What are your actual nitrate (and phosphate) levels, and what made you decide to try to lower nitrates?

My tank is a 75g established (1 year) fish only. My nitrates vary between 20 and 40 (Hanna HR Checker). My phosphates are between .1 and .5 (Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker). I use GFO and Phosphat-E to control my phosphates. While those numbers are OK for a fish-only tank, I may add corals in the future and would like to keep my nitrates and phosphates at a more constant and lower level.

 

[TehBrainz]

FWIW, I dose vinegar to keep my nitrates between ~12-18 ppm and have never observed bacterial bloom as a result.

Follow the advice from the others above, start with less than you think you need and spread the doses across a longer period of time.

I used the carbon dosing chart below when I initially started. I ended on a daily level that worked for my tanks nutrient levels. Now I tweak based on testing, as needed (haven't had to make changes in a while though).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Bacterial blooms are quite unusual to happen and are not harmful. I would not overly worry about it happening.

 

[TLCarrico]

FWIW, I dose vinegar to keep my nitrates between ~12-18 ppm and have never observed bacterial bloom as a result.

Follow the advice from the others above, start with less than you think you need and spread the doses across a longer period of time.

I used the carbon dosing chart below when I initially started. I ended on a daily level that worked for my tanks nutrient levels. Now I tweak based on testing, as needed (haven't had to make changes in a while though).

Thanks for the info. I may switch to vinegar at some point in the future. While the homebrew vodka I'm currently using is not difficult to mix, straight 5% vinegar is even easier. Can you confirm your dosing amounts are in milliliters?

 

[TLCarrico]

Bacterial blooms are quite unusual to happen and are not harmful. I would not overly worry about it happening.

Thanks for the info. My main concern is the white stringy mess on my rocks. If I cut back on my dosing amount, will the stringy mess go away on its own or will I need to scrub/vacuum it out?

 

[TehBrainz]

Thanks for the info. I may switch to vinegar at some point in the future. While the homebrew vodka I'm currently using is not difficult to mix, straight 5% vinegar is even easier. Can you confirm your dosing amounts are in milliliters?

Yes milliliters

Here is the article for carbon dosing for the reference chart, written in part by a certain individual also in your thread

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

My tank is a 75g established (1 year) fish only. My nitrates vary between 20 and 40 (Hanna HR Checker). My phosphates are between .1 and .5 (Hanna ULR Phosphate Checker). I use GFO and Phosphat-E to control my phosphates. While those numbers are OK for a fish-only tank, I may add corals in the future and would like to keep my nitrates and phosphates at a more constant and lower level.

I would argue that your numbers are fine for most coral. If your tank has a happy spot in regards to nutrient levels (that doesn't require a ton of intervention by you), that stability is going to be more important than any specific level.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

NEW Vodka and Vinegar Dosing Charts

The reasons I'm updating the Vinegar and Vodka dosing charts are two-fold: 1. The ramp was unnecessarily slow. There was no perceived benefit to such a tedious ramp, and it led to reefers quitting because they thought carbon dosing didn't work. 2. The ramp did not scale up correctly...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[TehBrainz]

NEW Vodka and Vinegar Dosing Charts

The reasons I'm updating the Vinegar and Vodka dosing charts are two-fold: 1. The ramp was unnecessarily slow. There was no perceived benefit to such a tedious ramp, and it led to reefers quitting because they thought carbon dosing didn't work. 2. The ramp did not scale up correctly...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you Randy!

Not often in the hobby do we acknowledge a process being too slow, but when the experts bring the science and reasoning it certainly is helpful.

I'll save that thread for future reference

 

[Ashish Patel]

Make sure to keep a good eye on your PO4. I noticed a bacteria bloom once they bottomed out after a big waterchange. I like you was continuing to manage PO4 but instead using lantham chloride, which i have since stopped and now dosing Phosphates as of the past 4 days. My Phosphates went from 32ppb to 19ppb in 24 hour period dosing 30ml of vodka. My suggestion stop GFO until you figure out how much your PO4 is impacted.

 

[Spare time]

Bacterial blooms are quite unusual to happen and are not harmful. I would not overly worry about it happening.

I disagree that they are not harmful. I've seen blooms cause oxygen issues with fish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I disagree that they are not harmful. I've seen blooms cause oxygen issues with fish.

Ok, yes, if there’s a big bloom and aeration is insufficient such that O2 drops, that can harm fish.

But that is presumably only from a sudden substantial overdose. In terms of O2 reduction, it doesn’t matter if the bacteria or other organism consuming the organic is visible in the water column (“a bloom”) or hidden on surfaces and such.

I’ve ramped up vinegar dosing to the point where the water was hazy with bacteria. It was not optimal for other reasons, but I saw no issues with fish.

 

[1ocean]

.

 

[GARRIGA]

Have only used NoPox but did stress test to determine how much I could dose before cloudiness and gasping occurred. In a volume of 16 gallons, I've had cloudy water as low as 3ml and as high as 15ml. However, most of the times dosing as high as 4ml there was no cloudiness and perhaps attributed to an established biological filter comprised of benthic heterotrophs.

Year and a half in I tested 6ml and 10ml and no cloudiness.

Best I derived from these experiments is start slow and increase until first sign of cloudiness. Every tank is different therefore each will react differently. Same approach with bacterial slime from overdosing.

Only once did I recall seeing distress in fish but didn't document it. Best I recall was when dosing 15ml. This was rather brief and no apparent long-term affects from it. Not suggesting others dose this heavily. I was running tests.