"Captive Bred" Pterapogon Kauderni exhibiting classic BCIV...just a matter of time until 100%...

[WestCoastReefNoob]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy article... I recently purchased what I thought were fully-quarantined, captive-bred Banggai Cardinalfish.
One arrived DOA, the second died just under two weeks of receiving them. I believe the cause of death was Iridovirus, based on what I've read so far, a great example found in the Journal of Veterinary Diagnostic Investigation article "Systemic Iridovirus Infection in the Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon Kauderni Koumans 1933)" (link below):

"...exhibit consistent clinical signs of lethargy, darkening in body pigmentation, and inappetence. Shortly after the occurrence of these signs, animals became listless, had an increase ventilation rate, and continued to darken. Affected specimens produced an unusual white fecal cast and then died within 2 days."

The second fish exhibited this to the letter, dying 2 days after exhibiting the "unusual white fecal cast".

Sadly, I have one last Banggai, which remains in QT/observation tank. He seems to be doing ok, but body pigmentation appears slightly darker, feeds inconsistently, and spends a lot of time hiding out in the faux urchin I made for them.
Is it only a matter of time him? From what I've read so far, there isn't any treatment for BCIV. Since he was directly exposed, I assume he's most likely infected.

I have to be out of town in a few weeks, and not sure what I should do at this point. Any guidance is much appreciated!


Added note: I didn't think this was endemic to captive-bred Banggai...is this accurate, or was I sold wild caught fish?

Link to article: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/104063870902100302

 

[vetteguy53081]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy article... I recently purchased what I thought were fully-quarantined, captive-bred Banggai Cardinalfish.
One arrived DOA, the second died just under two weeks of receiving them. I believe the cause of death was Iridovirus, based on what I've read so far, a great example found in the Journal of Veterinary Diagnostic Investigation article "Systemic Iridovirus Infection in the Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon Kauderni Koumans 1933)" (link below):

"...exhibit consistent clinical signs of lethargy, darkening in body pigmentation, and inappetence. Shortly after the occurrence of these signs, animals became listless, had an increase ventilation rate, and continued to darken. Affected specimens produced an unusual white fecal cast and then died within 2 days."

The second fish exhibited this to the letter, dying 2 days after exhibiting the "unusual white fecal cast".

Sadly, I have one last Banggai, which remains in QT/observation tank. He seems to be doing ok, but body pigmentation appears slightly darker, feeds inconsistently, and spends a lot of time hiding out in the faux urchin I made for them.
Is it only a matter of time him? From what I've read so far, there isn't any treatment for BCIV. Since he was directly exposed, I assume he's most likely infected.

I have to be out of town in a few weeks, and not sure what I should do at this point. Any guidance is much appreciated!


Added note: I didn't think this was endemic to captive-bred Banggai...is this accurate, or was I sold wild caught fish?

Link to article: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/104063870902100302

These fish dont ship well and if imported are overbred depending on breeder and yes, based on a virus which has triggered bans on certain imported cardinals

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy article... I recently purchased what I thought were fully-quarantined, captive-bred Banggai Cardinalfish.
One arrived DOA, the second died just under two weeks of receiving them. I believe the cause of death was Iridovirus, based on what I've read so far, a great example found in the Journal of Veterinary Diagnostic Investigation article "Systemic Iridovirus Infection in the Banggai Cardinalfish (Pterapogon Kauderni Koumans 1933)" (link below):

"...exhibit consistent clinical signs of lethargy, darkening in body pigmentation, and inappetence. Shortly after the occurrence of these signs, animals became listless, had an increase ventilation rate, and continued to darken. Affected specimens produced an unusual white fecal cast and then died within 2 days."

The second fish exhibited this to the letter, dying 2 days after exhibiting the "unusual white fecal cast".

Sadly, I have one last Banggai, which remains in QT/observation tank. He seems to be doing ok, but body pigmentation appears slightly darker, feeds inconsistently, and spends a lot of time hiding out in the faux urchin I made for them.
Is it only a matter of time him? From what I've read so far, there isn't any treatment for BCIV. Since he was directly exposed, I assume he's most likely infected.

I have to be out of town in a few weeks, and not sure what I should do at this point. Any guidance is much appreciated!


Added note: I didn't think this was endemic to captive-bred Banggai...is this accurate, or was I sold wild caught fish?

Link to article: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/104063870902100302

The term "captive bred" is a bit muddled when it comes to Banggais. There are five sources for these fish:

1) wild caught in their endemic range
2) wild caught where they have been translocated (sometimes sold as "captive raised")
3) Pen raised in SE Asia
4) Tank raised in SE Asia (I'm not sure how prevalent this is)
5) Tank raised in domestic systems (Either the US or the EU).

The Iridovirus is likely in the first three sources and possibly the 4th.

I've found that domestically raised fish do best, as long as they have not been "tanked" with any fish from the other groups.

You do need to be mindful that since the viral symptoms are a bit vague and because you cannot confirm infections, you don't want to fall into the trap of calling every cardinalfish loss as being due to the virus.

Here is a short write-up I did on this topic:

Banggai Cardinalfish Iridovirus (BCIV)
This fish was originally discovered in 1933 but then lost to science for about 60 years, when the Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) was “rediscovered” and began entering the tropical fish trade. Aquarists noted how hardy the species was and that they were very easy to reproduce in captivity. A decade later, the price for wild-caught Banggai cardinalfish had decreased fivefold, but the animals were now considered very delicate, with high losses seen in newly acquired wild fish.

What was the cause of this sudden change in the apparent health of this species in captivity? Poor handling, collection with cyanide (unlikely), and bacterial disease were all suggested as possible reasons for this change. A researcher then published a study showing that the presence of an iridovirus was associated with episodes of mass mortality in newly imported cardinalfish (Weber et al. 2009). A similar virus has since been isolated from the common batfish, Platax orbicularis (Sriwanayos et al. 2013), but a corresponding high mortality in aquarium fish of that species has not been noted, perhaps because many fewer batfish are imported for the pet trade than the ever-popular Banggai cardinalfish.

Since there is no cure for this viral disease, captive-raised fish that were never exposed to wild stock, or fish that have subsequently developed immunity by surviving an infection would be the best choices for aquarists. Avoid inexpensive wild-caught Banggai Cardinalfish. Not only do they have a poor survival record, but they’re also being collected at such a high rate that wild populations are locally threatened with extinction.

 

[WestCoastReefNoob]

These fish dont ship well and if imported are overbred depending on breeder and yes, based on a virus which has triggered bans on certain imported cardinals

Thanks @vetteguy53081. I researched the fish, expected captive-bred would be more resilient (assuming I was getting captive-bred) but in hindsight I should have researched the vendor more thoroughly.

I've read that this particular Iridovirus is specific to the Banggai Cardinalfish...do you know where I can find more info on this? If so, would it BCIV is not transmissible to other fish?
If the case, would it be safe to add him to the DT to at least let him live out the rest of his life? I'm assuming probably not a good idea.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks @vetteguy53081. I researched the fish, expected captive-bred would be more resilient (assuming I was getting captive-bred) but in hindsight I should have researched the vendor more thoroughly.

I've read that this particular Iridovirus is specific to the Banggai Cardinalfish...do you know where I can find more info on this? If so, would it BCIV is not transmissible to other fish?
If the case, would it be safe to add him to the DT to at least let him live out the rest of his life? I'm assuming probably not a good idea.

I do not think its transmissible - and if it is - it's not lethal. (as far as I know) There is no reason not to add the fish to the display if it's healthy - I might want to keep an eye on it a bit longer. Jay wrote a nice summary above.

 

[WestCoastReefNoob]

The term "captive bred" is a bit muddled when it comes to Banggais. There are five sources for these fish:

1) wild caught in their endemic range
2) wild caught where they have been translocated (sometimes sold as "captive raised")
3) Pen raised in SE Asia
4) Tank raised in SE Asia (I'm not sure how prevalent this is)
5) Tank raised in domestic systems (Either the US or the EU).

The Iridovirus is likely in the first three sources and possibly the 4th.

I've found that domestically raised fish do best, as long as they have not been "tanked" with any fish from the other groups.

You do need to be mindful that since the viral symptoms are a bit vague and because you cannot confirm infections, you don't want to fall into the trap of calling every cardinalfish loss as being due to the virus.

Here is a short write-up I did on this topic:

Banggai Cardinalfish Iridovirus (BCIV)
This fish was originally discovered in 1933 but then lost to science for about 60 years, when the Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kauderni) was “rediscovered” and began entering the tropical fish trade. Aquarists noted how hardy the species was and that they were very easy to reproduce in captivity. A decade later, the price for wild-caught Banggai cardinalfish had decreased fivefold, but the animals were now considered very delicate, with high losses seen in newly acquired wild fish.

What was the cause of this sudden change in the apparent health of this species in captivity? Poor handling, collection with cyanide (unlikely), and bacterial disease were all suggested as possible reasons for this change. A researcher then published a study showing that the presence of an iridovirus was associated with episodes of mass mortality in newly imported cardinalfish (Weber et al. 2009). A similar virus has since been isolated from the common batfish, Platax orbicularis (Sriwanayos et al. 2013), but a corresponding high mortality in aquarium fish of that species has not been noted, perhaps because many fewer batfish are imported for the pet trade than the ever-popular Banggai cardinalfish.

Since there is no cure for this viral disease, captive-raised fish that were never exposed to wild stock, or fish that have subsequently developed immunity by surviving an infection would be the best choices for aquarists. Avoid inexpensive wild-caught Banggai Cardinalfish. Not only do they have a poor survival record, but they’re also being collected at such a high rate that wild populations are locally threatened with extinction.

Thanks @Jay Hemdal, appreciate the great summary/write-up. Thanks for the guidance on falling into the trap, it's too easy to get myopic when researching these things.

I'll continue observing the remaining fish as @MnFish1 recommends (in QT/observation 3 weeks now).
I haven't seen signs of ich or velvet, and fish were supposed to be pre-QT'ed by vendor. Would re-treating with Prazi for flukes be harmful? Any other treatment advised?

 

[WestCoastReefNoob]

I do not think its transmissible - and if it is - it's not lethal. (as far as I know) There is no reason not to add the fish to the display if it's healthy - I might want to keep an eye on it a bit longer. Jay wrote a nice summary above.

Thanks @MnFish1 , I'll continue to observe and monitor. Any treatment I should consider over the next 2-3 weeks, given these were supposed to be QT'ed by the vendor?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks @vetteguy53081. I researched the fish, expected captive-bred would be more resilient (assuming I was getting captive-bred) but in hindsight I should have researched the vendor more thoroughly.

I've read that this particular Iridovirus is specific to the Banggai Cardinalfish...do you know where I can find more info on this? If so, would it BCIV is not transmissible to other fish?
If the case, would it be safe to add him to the DT to at least let him live out the rest of his life? I'm assuming probably not a good idea.

Looks up coral magazine which had an article on this a few months ago and spoke with Sea Dwelling who also observed what was mentioned

 

[WestCoastReefNoob]

Looks up coral magazine which had an article on this a few months ago and spoke with Sea Dwelling who also observed what was mentioned

Will do, thanks for the pointers!