Can you use any fine sand for a deep sandbed nitrate reduction? And a few questions

[HAAAAAAAA]

I was designing a new 45 gallon DIY sump in my software and whilest i was making a certain compartment for a deep sandbed i had some doubts and questions as to not waste a compartment

Do deep sandbeds work? I had come across a certain website which I don't remember the name of and they said that in their experiment it didn't seem to work so I wanted to make sure if it does

If it does work, how many inches is preferable? I am willing to go as deep as possible

Incase if a deep sandbed works would it be alright to keep a refugium? Incase the deep sandbed does denitrify should I worry about my chaeto not getting enough nitrates? Or could I just increase my livestock to solve the issue?

I thought of placing the deep sandbed as the last filtration compartment after the water comes across a filter sock, course sponge, Protein skimmer, fine sponge, refugium and lastly fine sand, would this be preferable?

I thought of adding ceramic rings as the base for a deep sandbed, would this increase its efficiency? Or would it be a waste of ceramic rings?

Any information or answers would be valuable to me and much appreciated

 

[Formulator]

They can work, but seem to have fallen out of fashion lately. There are other less risky and messy options for nitrate export IMO.

If you are set on the idea, I think you are over complicating a little. Just pick a chamber and make your DSB. A lot of folks just run a 5 gallon bucket full of sand in line with their sump plumbing which seems to work fine. I run a borderline DSB in my refugium under the chaeto and it does fine. I have to dose nitrates to keep up with consumption though. My almost DSB had the original purpose of becoming a substrate for mangroves, but I killed a couple and threw in the towel. The sand remains lol. Only way to really find out is to try it and measure nitrate over time to see if your export is more than the input, then adjust from there.

 

[Formulator]

Sorry I did a poor job reading your post and didn’t answer some basic questions…

how many inches is preferable?

4-6 inches

after the water comes across a filter sock, course sponge, Protein skimmer, fine sponge, refugium and lastly fine sand, would this be preferable?

I would just combine the fuge and DSB in the same chamber. No reason to separate them. This will create a perfect habitat for copepods, a great detritus eater and food source for some fish, especially wrasse and dragonettes. For this reason, you don’t want much mechanical filtration downstream that would prevent the copepods from migrating to the display. IMO the sponges in your design are not really necessary if you’re running filter socks. You will get tired of cleaning them all the time and they don’t really add much value beyond what the socks are already removing.

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

They can work, but seem to have fallen out of fashion lately. There are other less risky and messy options for nitrate export IMO.

If you are set on the idea, I think you are over complicating a little. Just pick a chamber and make your DSB. A lot of folks just run a 5 gallon bucket full of sand in line with their sump plumbing which seems to work fine. I run a borderline DSB in my refugium under the chaeto and it does fine. I have to dose nitrates to keep up with consumption though. My almost DSB had the original purpose of becoming a substrate for mangroves, but I killed a couple and threw in the towel. The sand remains lol. Only way to really find out is to try it and measure nitrate over time to see if your export is more than the input, then adjust from there.

The info is much appreciated! I have a whole 8 gallon bucket full of black sand which I originally used for my freshwater tank which is now converted to a saltwater so I was wondering if I could just use any sand since I could rarely see anyone who uses a black sand Lol

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

Sorry I did a poor job reading your post and didn’t answer some basic questions…


4-6 inches

I would just combine the fuge and DSB in the same chamber. No reason to separate them. This will create a perfect habitat for copepods, a great detritus eater and food source for some fish, especially wrasse and dragonettes. For this reason, you don’t want much mechanical filtration downstream that would prevent the copepods from migrating to the display. IMO the sponges in your design are not really necessary if you’re running filter socks. You will get tired of cleaning them all the time and they don’t really add much value beyond what the socks are already removing.

No worries at all! I really appreciate your advice and information!

The sump i am making is gonna be about 14 inch in height and 26 inch in width aswell as 30 inch in length so is the sand better spread out? Can the sand being deeper be more better? Like for example 8 to 10 inches?

I thank you for the input on the sponges! It indeed does make sense but since I am gonna be upgrading my sump I'll need sponges from the older sump to keep the filtration going

 

[Formulator]

I’m a bit out of my depth (no pun intended lol) when it comes to whether a DSB can be too deep. Maybe someone else will chime in with more DSB experience. I will say that I’ve seen the bucket style DSB’s be extremely deep; like half or 3/4 of a 5 gal bucket deep, so I suppose 8-10 inches is reasonable.

Keep the sponges if you want, but if your display is full of live rock, you don’t need to worry about “seeding” the sump. A majority of your biofiltration is happening in the live rock.

 

[HAAAAAAAA]

I’m a bit out of my depth (no pun intended lol) when it comes to whether a DSB can be too deep. Maybe someone else will chime in with more DSB experience. I will say that I’ve seen the bucket style DSB’s be extremely deep; like half or 3/4 of a 5 gal bucket deep, so I suppose 8-10 inches is reasonable.

Keep the sponges if you want, but if your display is full of live rock, you don’t need to worry about “seeding” the sump. A majority of your biofiltration is happening in the live rock.

Its indeed true that you learn more things as you go since i mostly imagined that "sponges are supposed to be the powerhouse of bacteria" but i guess that isn't true!

I do have about 80 pounds of rocks in there which have been established for about 2 years so I might remove my course sponges and only add fine polyesters for extra clarity

Do you think that it could increase efficiency if i add ceramic rings at the bottom of the sand bed?

And once again thanks so much for the info!

 

[Formulator]

I love the attitude! Been doing this for close to 9 years and I’m constantly learning. The experience and expertise in these forums is mind blowing. I might actually learn something in this thread if we can get a DSB expert to chime in… I’m not sure about the ceramic rings myself.

 

[Dburr1014]

I had a 5" dsb/refuge in the sump where the tank drain was. It just dumped right in. No socks. I figured the food would go down there and the pods would appreciate it.

Yes they work.

 

[Subsea]

I ran a Jaubert Plenum for 20 years and natural nitrate removal works. However, after 20 years. my large amount of coral has replaced the need for nitrate reduction and I now dose ammonia. I also reduced sandbed brom 6” deep to 2” and I reverse flow up thru substrate as I do not require nitrate reduction.