Are those water reading a good thing when thinking of introducing some basic SPS?

[MikeCRK]

Hi!

I am running my pico (8.5G) on the ocean water. I have some sofites (mushrooms, zoas and palys, GSP, BSP) inside and some LPS too (duncan , war coral) and one SPS for a test (Meteor Shower Cyphastrea). SPS is not thriving as the rest of the ones, but it is not dying etc. it might be still getting used to as it is like less than 2 weeks I believe inside) - it seems to be taking its time really.

I was thinking of putting in some monties, birds nest, plating one or maybe milka. Nothing fancy. Recommendation very welcomed!

Is it good to go?

PO4: 0
NH3/4: 0,2 ppm
NO2: 0.05 ppm
NO3: 10 ppm
KH: 7
pH: 8.2

and a photo from 5 minutes ago, of the war coral enjoying feeding time (I believe the colony is happy!):

hermit is photobombing there only

 

[LiLinka]

Your phosphates are bottomed out. You need to raise those before you start to have to deal with cyano issues. Phosphate should be in the (.04-.08) range, ALK is a little on lower side at 7. I would raise that to 8-9. Other than that it’s looking good.

 

[MikeCRK]

Your phosphates are bottomed out. You need to raise those before you start to have to deal with cyano issues. Phosphate should be in the (.04-.08) range, ALK is a little on lower side at 7. I would raise that to 8-9. Other than that it’s looking good.

Hey, thank you!

The phosphates are zeroing quite fast after each water change - I use the water from the ocean. The readings are usually in the range 0.03-0.00.
I have been warned by multiple users about algae attack, cyano attack and... nothing of such thing ever happened. Only few users were saying that because of the 'live water' I use, I should not be bothered (and it seems they were absolutely right). Even the ugly stages of my tank were less than a week long (no cyano stage at all). Safe low end of PO4 should be well easy to maintain by simple fertilizer dropping. Do you think few drops now and then would do? Obviously with testing after applying.

Same with ALK, which worried me a bit but then I took pure oceanic water I have set aside for the change and it is showing exactly same 7. I was reading a lot last two days on it, and the opinions are split a half. Some peeps will say that trying getting it in higher end is 'old school', the others are claiming zero difference when they keep it at the 7 level and that this is actually more natural level. I am not pumping any fertilizers nor using anything but the ocean water.

Happy that I actually nicely formulated my concerns here, as those two values apart to the possible new inhabitants in my tank were causing me headaches.

Does anyone else can share their thoughts? I am far from taking one single opinion on board on the internet, I had my lesson in the past

edit: water is from the Northern Atlantic, same Gulfstream current as in Caribbean.

 

[StatelineReefer]

Alk of 7 is fine, but I agree attention needs to be paid to phosphates. A little more in a captive environment is healthy. If you're not adding fish yet, ammonium will be consumed by the coral's symbiote, Zooxanthellae. Nitrites would, however, still be a concern, as those are not as easily broken down by the dinoflagellate inside the coral.

 

[MikeCRK]

Alk of 7 is fine, but I agree attention needs to be paid to phosphates. A little more in a captive environment is healthy. If you're not adding fish yet, ammonium will be consumed by the coral's symbiote, Zooxanthellae. Nitrites would, however, still be a concern, as those are not as easily broken down by the dinoflagellate inside the coral.

Cycle is OK, no spikes (the last was when I put the fish inside - absolutely expected in my tank). NO2 is getting broken down nicely from NH3/4 and NO3 levels are getting consumed on the go keeping the level in the 10-15 range. If I see anything worrying, I do a quick water change with the water set aside. This tiny jar, so 5 litres does the trick and each time corals are like donuts when done - so happy.

I have inside a clownfish, blenny, two hermits, two turbos, feather worm and numerous critters I do not even know the names

So back to PO4 levels. Would you think that putting like 2-3 drops of 4,500 mg/L phosphate solution could do what is needed? Like I mean, adding and testing a day or two later to see the impact. I do not want to risk getting plagues to the tank with high PO4 levels.

I use Salifert tests for PO4, I am rather putting the zero if it does not reach 0.03, but with the reading card for that test even a different shade of the light when checking can make the difference to the reading...

Will try to take a photo of the current state.

PS. I am 20+ years in successful fishkeeping and aquascaping, just started this cube to learn to control marine one and switch my main tank to marine

 

[StatelineReefer]

So back to PO4 levels. Would you think that putting like 2-3 drops of 4,500 mg/L phosphate solution could do what is needed? Like I mean, adding and testing a day or two later to see the impact. I do not want to risk getting plagues to the tank with high PO4 levels.

In an 8.5 gallon with barely measurable PO4 levels I would put 5 drops of 4500 mg/l and test 12 hours later. With your current stock and water volume, assuming a PO4 limitation, you should find it down to 0.04 at the end of those 12 hours.

 

[MikeCRK]

In an 8.5 gallon with barely measurable PO4 levels I would put 5 drops of 4500 mg/l and test 12 hours later. With your current stock and water volume, assuming a PO4 limitation, you should find it down to 0.04 at the end of those 12 hours.

Okey dokey, I added 5 drops, we will see what that will do - thanks! PO4 at very low level is nothing unusual when using the ocean water from what I know, but sure it is better to have some inside.

Here is the photo of all, just taken:

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

You’ve done a top job so far, scoring goals for team natural sea water. System is still pretty new though, I’d maybe wait a bit until things mature before adding SPS. Not saying they won’t go ok, just that you’ll be more likely to start making reactive changes to their needs, especially if they struggle a bit. You wouldn’t want this to be at the expense of the other 95% of things going great in this tank. Anyway, some food for thought.

 

[MikeCRK]

You’ve done a top job so far, scoring goals for team natural sea water. System is still pretty new though, I’d maybe wait a bit until things mature before adding SPS. Not saying they won’t go ok, just that you’ll be more likely to start making reactive changes to their needs, especially if they struggle a bit. You wouldn’t want this to be at the expense of the other 95% of things going great in this tank. Anyway, some food for thought.

Thanks! Beginner's luck I'd say

Tested water today after applying 5 drops of PO4 yesterday. The reading is somewhere between 0.00 and 0.03. So there are two options: a) PO4 is being sucked by the live at a very fast rate b) my test does not work?

I am not a big fan of measurements, but doing it when needed. From my observation, Since added, no "dust" on the glass which was building a little each day. Zero difference to how corals are acting. So maybe it would be a good idea to drop few more today and then measure and maintain the level. In worse case scenario I would cause a bloom, which would be immediately down due to... lack of nutrients What you recon?

I believe the mishaps with my first attempts to SPS were mostly because of my zero experience and believing the person who was selling me the frags. Business is business after all.

It would be perfect if having a large tank, totally matured etc. My goal on this cube is to learn as much as I can on this scale as it is easier to make mistakes (touch the wood). In the tank the live is thriving. Corals are really happy it seems, fish and other critters too (like one hermit grew twice since introduced). I have no issues which I observe in other threads like algae or dio buildups, bryosis lasted three days in my tank, I do not have any issues with film etc, the sand is clean (I do not have anything cleaning it up). From the coral point of view only corals from one supplier were having some rough start (like shy), I think this is because the conditions those were kept by that person + the glue this person uses is kinda funky. Like blocking the corals to take all the plug, those first turn into donuts as I call it and then split like crazy.

I keep feather worm and duncan mostly as my indicators if something is going South.

 

[ptrusk]

Tested water today after applying 5 drops of PO4 yesterday. The reading is somewhere between 0.00 and 0.03.

I am assuming you are using a Salfert test. Might be
worthwhile to invest in a digital Hana phosphate tester. My eyes aren’t sharp enough to see the low colors on the Salifert.

I agree with your method, in fact I am attempting the same thing, fishless SPS nano. Biggest “challenge” has been maintaining some level of phosphate. Every other day addition of Neophos has been necessary. Have not quite dialed it in yet. My next step will be adding phosphate to top off water. Or give in and add a fish or 2.

Good luck keep posting.

 

[MikeCRK]

I am assuming you are using a Salfert test. Might be
worthwhile to invest in a digital Hana phosphate tester. My eyes aren’t sharp enough to see the low colors on the Salifert.

I agree with your method, in fact I am attempting the same thing, fishless SPS nano. Biggest “challenge” has been maintaining some level of phosphate. Every other day addition of Neophos has been necessary. Have not quite dialed it in yet. My next step will be adding phosphate to top off water. Or give in and add a fish or 2.

Good luck keep posting.

Yeah, Salifert indeed. Whoever made the design...

We will see what life will bring! But I am an optimist.

 

[JCM]

Okey dokey, I added 5 drops, we will see what that will do - thanks! PO4 at very low level is nothing unusual when using the ocean water from what I know, but sure it is better to have some inside.

Here is the photo of all, just taken:

View attachment 3091085

Extremely low phosphate is fine in the ocean because of the massive turnover and near constant presence of plankton for the coral to feed on. We can't replicate that in our tanks, so having measurable phosphate level is important. Otherwise looks good, everything looks pretty happy!

Alk at 7 is fine in my opinion.

 

[ptrusk]

I got paranoid when I had a montipora lantana bleach. In my defense, it was pretty pale when I received it I was never one to chase numbers and really never even tested phosphate but always had fish in the tank that were fed.

I dosed 5 mls of neophos one day which brought phos from 0.01 to 0.16 and 2 days later it was down to 0.04 so you could be correct that the new rocks are binding the phosphate.

Tank was started with dry rocks and some live rubble from another tank sump in November. Small frags of digis, stylo, birdsnest all doing fine. Still waiting for the ugly stage that never happened.

I think you numbers are fine for monti, stylos and birdsnest. I say go for it!

Disclaimer: the Hanna egg I am using is only accurate to +/- 0.04 sorry for all the math. As long as you have a lillte phosphate you are good

 

[MikeCRK]

I got paranoid when I had a montipora lantana bleach. In my defense, it was pretty pale when I received it I was never one to chase numbers and really never even tested phosphate but always had fish in the tank that were fed.

I dosed 5 mls of neophos one day which brought phos from 0.01 to 0.16 and 2 days later it was down to 0.04 so you could be correct that the new rocks are binding the phosphate.

Tank was started with dry rocks and some live rubble from another tank sump in November. Small frags of digis, stylo, birdsnest all doing fine. Still waiting for the ugly stage that never happened.

I think you numbers are fine for monti, stylos and birdsnest. I say go for it!

Disclaimer: the Hanna egg I am using is only accurate to +/- 0.04 sorry for all the math. As long as you have a lillte phosphate you are good

Hey,

Nah, I am OK with all the calculations but I am trying to keep it at minimum. It is a hobby and fun after all, not a pharmacy I would be more into it if preparing my own water.

I added 5 more drops - still no difference. Oh well, I will simply add 6 drops a week and that must be enough for now. I will check for some basic SPS and maybe in two weeks I will put them in, no rush. I ordered AB+, will see how that will change the situation, as some are claiming it can lift the PO4 levels up and is beneficial to all corals. I will try from that angle so. What I thought as well is that it was low for a long time and now basically is buffet and everything is catching up. Stuff in my jar grows crazy fast (do not know why!) so this could be it.

Yeah, I think the same, "as long there is a trace it should be fine". And I am using ocean water so changes each week are also beneficial (thus ALK at 7 - this is a natural level, without keeping everything inside on steroids).

Thank you for your comment!

 

[StatelineReefer]

I ordered AB+, will see how that will change the situation, as some are claiming it can lift the PO4 levels up and is beneficial to all corals.

People have mixed results with AB+. Be careful.

 

[MikeCRK]

People have mixed results with AB+. Be careful.

I am putting there phyto, feed with frozen shrimps, cyclops etc. plus fresh water with all good stuff from the ocean once a week.

Would you recommend any alternative? With marine tank it is a brand new experience to me. Freshwater I am a different cup of tea, making my own frozen food, breeding live food etc.