Are Captive Bred Fish More Susceptible to Diseases?

[livinlifeinBKK]

Just curious if captive bred fish are more susceptible to diseases since I'd assume they're generally exposed much less to diseases and parasites when being bred and raised vs wild caught fish. I love the idea of captive breeding personally (although the price tag kinda deters me from going with captive bred). Since wild caught individuals are exposed to so many diseases and parasites naturally, it seems like they would be more hardy in general though...thoughts?

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Good question. I am thinking the captive bred variety will be worse off since they haven't been subjected to it.

 

[davidcalgary29]

But captive-bred fish were bred and raised in aquaria, and may be less-stressed when exposed to pathogens in the aquarium environment. I generally understand how immune systems work, and am not trying to be difficut, but think that there's more to consider in disease survivability than immediate immune response. It may well be that a healthy wild-caught fish that's been thoroughly acclimated to aquarium life (and I'm talking about years) will have a better chance of surviving a disease than some newly hatched biota animal, but I haven't seen any studies confirming or disputing that.

 

[Sharkbait19]

It’s a double edged sword.
Wild caught fish are more likely to come in with a disease, but the exposure to various pathogens in the wild would help to build some natural immunities.
Captive fish don’t have that exposure to build immunities, but are far less likely to have a disease assuming you are collecting straight from the breeder.
None of these immunities are going to protect against ich, velvet, brook, etc.
At the end of the day, a strict quarantine procedure is important to maintain the health of your fish and tank.

 

[MnFish1]

IMHO - captive-bred fish will be exceptionally more susceptible to disease than wild. Lets face it - the average wild fish has struggled through (what percent of fish spawn survive in the ocean - I think its far less than 1 percent) - life in the wild, exposure to disease, has escaped predators, etc. When you try to mix captive bred with wild fish - IMHO - you COULD be courting disaster - since they have no natural immunity - which is important.

 

[FeliciaM]

I've had the opposite experience. Captive bred fish IME are hardier than freshly imported wild caught fish. I feel that the immune response has MUCH more to do with being well conditioned rather than previous exposure to specific pathogens. No aquaculture facility is completely sterile, I'm sure captive bred fish immune systems get plenty of exercise, anyway.

I have been working in the industry for over 20 years now. As someone who has personally managed aquarium shops in the past and was responsible for tracking losses and margins, I can say with absolute certainty that the survival rates of captive bred fish - both on arrival and in customers' aquariums - is FAR better than wild caught. Light years better. Of course, they're not immortal, so they do fall prey to the same diseases and mistakes aquarists make.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I've had the opposite experience. Captive bred fish IME are hardier than freshly imported wild caught fish. I feel that the immune response has MUCH more to do with being well conditioned rather than previous exposure to specific pathogens. No aquaculture facility is completely sterile, I'm sure captive bred fish immune systems get plenty of exercise, anyway.

I have been working in the industry for over 20 years now. As someone who has personally managed aquarium shops in the past and was responsible for tracking losses and margins, I can say with absolute certainty that the survival rates of captive bred fish - both on arrival and in customers' aquariums - is FAR better than wild caught. Light years better. Of course, they're not immortal, so they do fall prey to the same diseases and mistakes aquarists make.

I think this is highly dependent on where you are in the world when you say "freshly imported"

 

[Subsea]

I've had the opposite experience. Captive bred fish IME are hardier than freshly imported wild caught fish. I feel that the immune response has MUCH more to do with being well conditioned rather than previous exposure to specific pathogens. No aquaculture facility is completely sterile, I'm sure captive bred fish immune systems get plenty of exercise, anyway.

I have been working in the industry for over 20 years now. As someone who has personally managed aquarium shops in the past and was responsible for tracking losses and margins, I can say with absolute certainty that the survival rates of captive bred fish - both on arrival and in customers' aquariums - is FAR better than wild caught. Light years better. Of course, they're not immortal, so they do fall prey to the same diseases and mistakes aquarists make.

Thank you for your educated insight as an industry professional.

After 51 years as a hobiest, I have had good experiences with wild caught fish.

Stress can not be measured, so comparing captive fish with short transportation times and wild caught transportation stress is comparing “apples & oranges”.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Thank you for your educated insight as a industry professional.

After 51 years as a hobiest, I have good experiences with wild caught fish. I guess I have been lucky in that I have had those good experiences with wild caught fish.

Stress can not be measured, so comparing captive fish with short transportation times and wild caught transportation stress is comparing “apples & oranges”.

Like i mentioned in the first post, my opinion is that wild caught have higher immunity. With that said, to play devil's advocate however, i guess you could point out that the wild caught fish that make it into tanks all the way in America are the strongest of the strong not due to immunity to pathogens but due to genetics and other factors as well. I still feel that wild caught do probably have a stronger immune system though and emphasize that the transportation process as well as where in the world they're going plays a huge role in how many make it after arrival to their final destination. I too actually worked in an aquarium shop in America before living here (not nearly for 20 years though) and am well aware of how many wild caught fish die shortly after making it to the shop. I haven't worked at a shop here but from what I've seen, wild caught fish are in MUCH better shape at the shops than wild caught fish in the shop i worked in in America as well as other shops i visited which points to transportation stress being a major factor causing fatalities, not lower immunity.

 

[areefer01]

There is merit to wild caught fish as it relates to their natural environment. There is also merit, and studies, with regards to child birth and natural feeding for X amount of time. I don't think anyone here will argue that although both are interesting discussions when civil.

The question was asked more out of curiosity if captive bred fish are more susceptible to diseases due to their bio secure facility. On the surface I can see why it was asked but not being in that industry nor a marine biologist I can only speak to my years of experience in the hobby and owning a variety of fish from both Biota and ORA. To be somewhat blunt the risk of susceptibility is directly related to the hobbyist and their system and NOT the vendor when buying direct. ORA, Bali, and Biota lively hood is based on their success and securing the facility with various protocols is job one. Again I've never toured their facility I thought I read they do use some NSW. I don't remember which location but this would address some of the natural sea's tender loving care from Mother Nature.

So to get back to "my opinion" if the hobbyist believes in not performing QT or isolation and observation I think the risk is high of them catching something. Not because of how they came to be but rather the hobbyist not having proper protocol or procedures to keep these sort of animals. And if they don't have these practices then again in my opinion they will have these issues with wild caught.

Onus is on the hobbyist to have a properly setup environment to keep animals in our care alive. As noted earlier by subsea this means enough rock and mature corals for sleeping, for retreat, for foraging, to brake chase, and to entertain. It also means we have to provide a variety of food that they are known to eat while being captive raised for sale and other quality foods like some make using grocery store seafood or LRS blends. It means that we don't put fish in with other fish that cause stress. Similar to corals. The canvas is wide yet all encompassing which is why I say it is on us, the hobbyist.

TL; DR - I understand the curiosity but believe no matter where the animal is brought in from the onus is on the hobbyist to provide proper care. And if that is done, with environment and food, the point is moot. Also note I'm very biased and love biota, bali, and ora - they are the future (in my opinion).

 

[Devaji]

I'll start my thoughts off with this is pure speculation on my part. lol

OK I would think and maybe I am wrong here but it seems that i alot of captive breed fish breeders are on the coast and use NSW? maybe not all but I bet some do. its a way to keep cost down. so maybe they are exposed to some stuff.

would be nice to hear from breeders like ORA, boita etc.

its an very interesting topic tho as i want to get a CB regal angel for my soon to be tank and it would be a shame if i lost it.

 

[Big Smelly fish]

Very interesting question. But I think when it comes to parasites no fish is immune to it and will all be just as accessible to getting them equally. In the ocean they have a vast amount of dilution. But I think in a closed system a wild caught and captive bred will both be the same so long as the diets are the same.

 

[Spare time]

Thank you for your educated insight as an industry professional.

After 51 years as a hobiest, I have had good experiences with wild caught fish.

Stress can not be measured, so comparing captive fish with short transportation times and wild caught transportation stress is comparing “apples & oranges”.

Stress can be measured, but not by hobbyists

 

[Subsea]

Stress can be measured, but not by hobbyists

Please explain this better.

 

[FSP]

Very nice post

If we're talking hardiness between two fish that are eating and well adjusted, one wild and one captive bred, maybe the wild one? The wild one in the ocean? A captive bred line not suffering from reckless inbreeding? I think it's hard to say, but how they arrive to that point is important.

Way oversimplified, I think the average reefer would do best with captive bred fish carefully line bred a few generations from wild parents. This is enough time to start choosing the most desirable traits for captive life (form, hardiness, size, color, temperament, fertility, etc.) while avoiding many of the deformities common in designer fish. Even if wild fish turn out to be more resilient to specific diseases or parasites, I think a fish that comes ready for life in a glass box, eating foods average hobbyists feed could be described as hardier overall.

Kind of a tangent, but there is a commercial freshwater angelfish (among other things) breeder that breeds fish in a pretty unique way. They have a couple facilities; one is quarantined fish, and the other is the hatchery. The only life allowed into the hatchery is sterilized eggs and the angels that hatch from the eggs. Talk about disease free I have doubts as to how well those fish would do in an average system (or worse, a wholesaler ), but it's a pretty unique way to enjoy a quarantined aquarium without medication.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Please explain this better.

I'm not sure if this is what he's referring to but i think you actually can quantify stress levels by measuring certain chemicals in the body sich as Cortisol if I'm not mistaken...again, not sure if that's what he meant.
In regards to the thread topic, it's true that a lot of CB fish are raised in NSW which exposes them to some parasites and pathogens but I'd imagine to a lesser extent since the breeders are aiming to maximize their yield... possibly not though... (which is why I started the thread to hear everyone's opinion and maybe learn a thing or two)

 

[Spare time]

Please explain this better.

Stress is a hormonal response and these hormones (such as cortisol and glucocorticoids) can be measured in animals when they are released by the body

 

[areefer01]

I know we did tests on Navy pilots stress level upon take off, landing, on carriers to include various times on the clock. Also included some combat situations if I remember correctly.

Somewhat unrelated but related to the talking point of stress and humans. Animals - I guess we can tape predator pictures and see how they react Teasing aside. Hope everyone is having an amazing day!

 

[Subsea]

Stress is a hormonal response and these hormones (such as cortisol and glucocorticoids) can be measured in animals when they are released by the body

Stress is so much more than a hormonal first response. Secondary effects of stress are “immune compromised” and that can not be measured directly.

 

[Spare time]

Stress is so much more than a hormonal first response. Secondary effects of stress are “immune compromised” and that can not be measured directly.

Its a hormonal response. Yes, stress can cause a plethora of issues, but that doesn't take away from it being a hormonal response. And yes, those secondary effects can be measured. This is information that one would get in an intro anatomy and physiology course. What you are describing is quite literally a whole field known as endocrinology. I can link some textbooks on behavioral endocrinology if you are interested in reading them. Alternatively, I can share some anatomy and physiology textbooks.