Ammonia in QT tank that *should* be cycled…

[PotatoPig]

So I’m doing a QT on a new fish (smallish flame angel in a 10 gallon). For doing QT I usually keep a bunch of inorganic filter media (bio balls, cut up fabric sock) in the DT sump and then put it in the QT hob on setup (and throw away after). This has typically worked well.

Did that, and for some reason after 10 days I don’t appear to have anything resembling a cycle. Ammonia consistently shows at ~0.4 on the Red Sea (total, so the toxic ammonia is much lower) and before I started doing water changes nitrates weren’t showing at all. A new seachem badge (that AFAIK measures the toxic ammonia only) is now consistently on yellow.

So I’ve been doing a 50% water change each day, which isn’t the worst thing for my tank as this means a 5% daily water change and then I use the tank water for the QT 50% change, but definitely not something I was planning on.

As a control I checked the DT water using the Red Sea test, and it unsurprisingly came back as zero testable ammonia.

Any ideas why the cycling didn’t work? The bio balls and sock cuts have been in the DT sump for months, so it seems highly unlikely they’re not colonized…

 

[brandon429]

Your biomedia needs to be in a channeled filter setup not just on the floor of the qt, let's check placement post pic of the qt

 

[brandon429]

Changing water cannot strip out or harm any cycle in any setup. Just do a full water change where we know there won't be dangerous levels and see what the badge says

Always doubt the kit not the cycle

If the new water shows safe levels then do more water changes and increase surface area placement don't add in more bacteria from a bottle

Post a pic that shows your filter setup

 

[PotatoPig]

Your biomedia needs to be in a channeled filter setup not just on the floor of the qt, let's check placement post pic of the qt

It’s been living in the bubble trap the last few months - every drop of water that’s gone through the sump in that time has passed within 1/16” of it.

 

[Garf]

It’s been living in the bubble trap the last few months - every drop of water that’s gone through the sump in that time has passed within 1/16” of it.

Do you carbon dose your display tank?

 

[PotatoPig]

Do you carbon dose your display tank?

No. The only thing I dose is a very slow drip of lanthanum.

 

[Garf]

No. The only thing I dose is a very slow drip of lanthanum.

Thanks. I've got some plastic mesh in my sump that's been in there a couple of years, I'm thinking of doing a test with it.

 

[brandon429]

above I'm meaning the biomedia placement in the qt must be in a channeled filter. if it's sitting in a bag in your qt it's not getting pass through, it's why I requested a pic / to assess details unstated so far

it does not have to be inside a channeled filter to pick up bacteria as it sits in a tank, any water contact at all will seed it. the efficiency in placement happens when you place that transferred out biomedia under loading in a qt, it must be in a channeled filter setup to work or water won't be forced to flow through and across. lots of people just set biomedia in the qt tank on the floor, that's not efficient at all.

you can rule out # of bacteria as an issue, with pics we'll be able to know if your degree of biomedia and placement scheme matches or deviates from thousands of known working qt setups.

 

[PotatoPig]

above I'm meaning the biomedia placement in the qt must be in a channeled filter. if it's sitting in a bag in your qt it's not getting pass through, it's why I requested a pic / to assess details unstated so far

Ah - it’s in the HOB, in the insert where you’d normally put the filter media for a HOB. There’s a continual flow of water over/through it.

/HOB is one of those Aqueon 10 gallon filters.

 

[brandon429]

nice. and if food wasn't littered about one small fish isn't much of a load I'd just do occasional 50% water changes matching temp and salinity and leave no uneaten feed. if you want to reduce water change frequency add in more surface area. some biobricks bought and used/cycled only for qt use even if placed on just the floor, in addition to what's in the hob will likely carry any common qt load

side note: transferred material out of the display that isn't fallowed is completely against your quarantine goals. qt biomedia should never contact your display, that's why I didn't ask you to put the badge into your display to calibrate it (then re use it in the qt)

 

[Garf]

Ah - it’s in the HOB, in the insert where you’d normally put the filter media for a HOB. There’s a continual flow of water over/through it.

/HOB is one of those Aqueon 10 gallon filters.

What was the ammonia source in the QT? Looks as though you haven't dosed much, or have you?

Edit - forget that, you've put a fish in, lol. Didn't see that bit. I call that "skip" reading.

 

[PotatoPig]

Nevermind. I’m stupid and forgot that copper can cause false positives with some types of ammonia tests. @Garf your comment tipped me off as I hadn’t added anything to cause ammonia and it seemed bizarre a single fish would cause so much each day, especially as I’ve been siphoning out all waste each evening.

I checked by adding copper to a batch of freshly extracted display tank water (from this evenings water change) and sure enough it then showed the same high ammonia levels I’ve been seeing in the QT tank…

Positives:

1. Daily 5% water changes are probably never a bad thing for a reef tank, and in this instance help me identify a low iodine issue.

2. The practice has greatly sped up my water change time for these small changes - down to 3 minutes 30 seconds….

3. The fish in QT is now well and truly acclimated to the DT water and has had its temporary living quarters thoroughly cleaned each day.

 

[Garf]

Nevermind. I’m stupid and forgot that copper can cause false positives with some types of ammonia tests. @Garf your comment tipped me off as I hadn’t added anything to cause ammonia and it seemed bizarre a single fish would cause so much each day, especially as I’ve been siphoning out all waste each evening.

I checked by adding copper to a batch of freshly extracted display tank water (from this evenings water change) and sure enough it then showed the same high ammonia levels I’ve been seeing in the QT tank…

Positives:

1. Daily 5% water changes are probably never a bad thing for a reef tank, and in this instance help me identify a low iodine issue.

2. The practice has greatly sped up my water change time for these small changes - down to 3 minutes 30 seconds….

3. The fish in QT is now well and truly acclimated to the DT water and has had its temporary living quarters thoroughly cleaned each day.

Glad to be of service, lol

 

[taricha]

I checked by adding copper to a batch of freshly extracted display tank water (from this evenings water change) and sure enough it then showed the same high ammonia levels I’ve been seeing in the QT tank…

nice detective work.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Nevermind. I’m stupid and forgot that copper can cause false positives with some types of ammonia tests. @Garf your comment tipped me off as I hadn’t added anything to cause ammonia and it seemed bizarre a single fish would cause so much each day, especially as I’ve been siphoning out all waste each evening.

I checked by adding copper to a batch of freshly extracted display tank water (from this evenings water change) and sure enough it then showed the same high ammonia levels I’ve been seeing in the QT tank…

Positives:

1. Daily 5% water changes are probably never a bad thing for a reef tank, and in this instance help me identify a low iodine issue.

2. The practice has greatly sped up my water change time for these small changes - down to 3 minutes 30 seconds….

3. The fish in QT is now well and truly acclimated to the DT water and has had its temporary living quarters thoroughly cleaned each day.

If you're treating the fish, why keep adding water from the display? Couldn't that contaminate the qt?

( I mean, if the display has something in it that can negatively affect the fish, the new one will be exposed eventually, but to prevent something from possibly infecting it while it's being treated, wouldn't using new water be better?)

 

[PotatoPig]

If you're treating the fish, why keep adding water from the display? Couldn't that contaminate the qt?

( I mean, if the display has something in it that can negatively affect the fish, the new one will be exposed eventually, but to prevent something from possibly infecting it while it's being treated, wouldn't using new water be better?)

My main concern is the fish bringing in ich, velvet, etc, especially as I picked it up at Petco.

In terms of the DT water - I figure the fish going to be in the DT sooner or later, so if there’s anything adverse in there it’s in the fish’s future regardless, although that said I don’t have any known issues and it’s been months since I added any fish. The fish in QT anlso isn’t “sick” that I known of, more I want to limit it’s potential as a disease vector.

This way I accomplish DT water changes while also acclimating the QT fish to the DT biome. I start by checking the shop salinity and mixing fresh water to match, then float and drop, then every couple days I do a small water change from the DT to bring the QT up to the same salinity, while also having a QT tank that is more or less the same biome (ph, bacteria, etc) as the DT to minimize shock on adding.