algae on rocks after move of tank

[TonyNPS]

Was hoping to get an opinion on whether i can turn on the lights to help my coral which I recently moved tank.

I moved a tank i purchased from someone 40 minutes away...and its been running for 4 days now....
The rock was a beautiful coralline red color.... but now has some green algae (see pix).
the live rock with the corals sat from 7pm Friday night without any heat ( not sure why the guy unplugged it ) temp was 68 degrees
on Saturday i put the whole rock with the corals into to a large tote container , with aquarium water covering it, and when i got home i heated it up to 76 and added flow
The live rock and corals stayed in the tote until mid day Sunday after i cleaned and re assembled the sump and tank.

I want to turn on the lights go get the corals back up to their original glory ( will do it slowly). but...

My concern: I added 50% new water and only kept 3 cups of the old sand... ( it looked really really dirty)
About a month back i added a biomedia block to ensure a smoother cycle when i re built ( as i was told i was not supposed to use the old sand).. but it did not really help....
this morning but ammonia is about 1ppm ... dropped quite a bit after adding 32oz of Fritz nitrifying bacteria two days ago (was at 5ppm).
so working thru a mini cycle...
I have 2 clowns in the tank... all the other livestock and some coral are in a separate tank.

Question:
1) If i turn on the lights will the green algae bloom?
i can tell the coral want light... they are twisting toward the window.
2) i believe i should wait to put the other live stock in the tank until ammonia is zero, correct?

thank you in advance

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

As far as lights, often there are recommendations to kill lights during cycle or ugly stage but generally not if you have light needing corals.
I did a reset when I got a new tank and split between the two. Ran lug ht a full and did fight a band of ugly stage, but maintenance and patience overcame it.

I have recently been told and think I agree that adding media to an existing tank won’t necessarily grow cycle bacteria to start another tank unless you increase the ammonia production in the tank as the bacteria stabilizes to the need. I am planning to “cycle” media in a separate 10 or 20 gallon tank with ace hardware ammonia so the media is stocked and ready to go.

 

[TonyNPS]

As far as lights, often there are recommendations to kill lights during cycle or ugly stage but generally not if you have light needing corals.
I did a reset when I got a new tank and split between the two. Ran lug ht a full and did fight a band of ugly stage, but maintenance and patience overcame it.

I have recently been told and think I agree that adding media to an existing tank won’t necessarily grow cycle bacteria to start another tank unless you increase the ammonia production in the tank as the bacteria stabilizes to the need. I am planning to “cycle” media in a separate 10 or 20 gallon tank with ace hardware ammonia so the media is stocked and ready to go.

Thank you for this info...

"that adding media to an existing tank won’t necessarily grow cycle bacteria to start another tank unless you increase the ammonia production in the tank as the bacteria stabilizes to the need."
I wonder if this is true... i put box of ceramic circles into the original tank 1 month prior to moving it... i have 5 fish in the tank with that bag of biomedia and there has not been a spike in ammonia in the 20 gallon tank. I am new to the hobby and dont know any better but i believe its working to a degree... 5 days later the water was pretty clear.

The live rock with the coral is extremally large with a good amount of surface area.. would nitrifying bacteria not be present on the rock still? i would have thought the rock would have been enough...

 

[brandon429]

bacteria will take on any new surfaces added to a reef tank, no extra food is required at all. extra space is the requirement, not feed.

see this proof thread

= someone upcycles a 200 gallon fully dry system, only by plumbing into the water from a current reef tank. no extra feeding beyond the normal tank was provided, no extra ammonia. 200 gallons of brand new bacteria surface area came about as the current system was running normally. the bacteria don't need food like we've been taught they need

they need only water, space to aggregate, and time.

 

[brandon429]

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

moving a handful of old waste factors in your algae issue, plus missing the light re ramp phase. bright lights=nutrients=algae resurgence for a while

that proof thread also shows that cycling bacteria come from water in a reef tank. and they come on rock, both deliver cycling bacteria among tanks

no hardscapes were transferred over.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Thank you for this info...

"that adding media to an existing tank won’t necessarily grow cycle bacteria to start another tank unless you increase the ammonia production in the tank as the bacteria stabilizes to the need."
I wonder if this is true... i put box of ceramic circles into the original tank 1 month prior to moving it... i have 5 fish in the tank with that bag of biomedia and there has not been a spike in ammonia in the 20 gallon tank. I am new to the hobby and dont know any better but i believe its working to a degree... 5 days later the water was pretty clear.

The live rock with the coral is extremally large with a good amount of surface area.. would nitrifying bacteria not be present on the rock still? i would have thought the rock would have been enough...

If you transfer the bio material to a new tank with the same number of fish then you shouldn’t see an ammonia issue.
However if you keep the rock out too long and something like a sponge dies off it can produce more ammonia than the bacteria can convert as quickly as it was in the other tank.
I have had bio bricks in a sump and moved them to a qt with a small load and have been fine, but one well established brick should be able to handle several fish by input two larger angels in a 40 with a bio brick that had been in my predator tank for 6+ months and it couldn’t keep up. This caused me to have to rearrange what I was doing as the angels came in larger than what I had ordered.

 

[TonyNPS]

If you transfer the bio material to a new tank with the same number of fish then you shouldn’t see an ammonia issue.
However if you keep the rock out too long and something like a sponge dies off it can produce more ammonia than the bacteria can convert as quickly as it was in the other tank.
I have had bio bricks in a sump and moved them to a qt with a small load and have been fine, but one well established brick should be able to handle several fish by input two larger angels in a 40 with a bio brick that had been in my predator tank for 6+ months and it couldn’t keep up. This caused me to have to rearrange what I was doing as the angels came in larger than what I had ordered.

something to this effect has happened in my tank becuase i have some ammonia present... and only 2 clowns at the moment. Patiently waiting for things to settle down so everything can be in one tank again... Thankyou for your insight.

One last question.... if i had kept all the water but still tossed the sand... would i still likely have had a small cycle in the tank like i am presently having? I replaced 20 gallons of water of the 60 in the tank between the top display and bottom sump.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

something to this effect has happened in my tank becuase i have some ammonia present... and only 2 clowns at the moment. Patiently waiting for things to settle down so everything can be in one tank again... Thankyou for your insight.

One last question.... if i had kept all the water but still tossed the sand... would i still likely have had a small cycle in the tank like i am presently having? I replaced 20 gallons of water of the 60 in the tank between the top display and bottom sump.

From what I believe there is very little bacteria (nitrifying) in the water column. It grows on surfaces (sand rock glass foam etc). This means you can technically do a 100% water change without causing any harm to your cycle. (But could stress you animals as it could greatly change the water parameters).
I don’t remember how long ago you did this change, but when you removed the sand you could have released things that caused the ammonia. This is the reason that you are discouraged from vacuuming the entire sand bed during a water change and recommended to just do a portion with each change.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

moving a handful of old waste factors in your algae issue, plus missing the light re ramp phase. bright lights=nutrients=algae resurgence for a while

that proof thread also shows that cycling bacteria come from water in a reef tank. and they come on rock, both deliver cycling bacteria among tanks

no hardscapes were transferred over.

As I read this post, it seems to contradict what you are stating. He clearly states overfeeding to normalize the nitrate and phosphate between the system. That overfeeding that creates the nitrate was first ammonia which feed the first nitrified creating nitrite which feeds the second nitrified which produces the nitrate.
The other point that I would make is, if the bacteria do not need extra food to produce more bacteria, the if you were to take a tank with dry rock, dry sand say 240 gallon system like a Red Sea S1000, then if you were to dose 2.0 ppm ammonia until it depletes over night, you should be able to fully stock that tank with no need to space out your additions.
Or if as you state that there is enough bacteria in the water, then you should be able to set up a new tank and fill with water from water changes if existing tanks and have a tank ready to go.

Now if you could set up a tank with true live rock (already cycled and kept wet and aerated) and clean live sand, that would give you an automatic cycle, but that is because the bacteria is colonized on the surfaces added.

 

[brandon429]

Show me where he fed the old system more than norm

He dosed nitrate and phosphate not ammonia, into the new tank, to suppress uglies

You can clearly read at the start he merely connected the new dry tank via shared pipe with old tank and in 20 days it was cycled, because reef water has millions of free transmissible bac to share. Read beyond his initial summary you're gaining opposite of the threads message and proof.

Read up to the part where he used salifert ammonia testing in the new tank to deem it ready

Then he began using the new tank, dosing the nitrate and phosphate to bring it up to par

None of this used bottle bacteria nor ammonia added, the hallmarks of dry rock cycling.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Show me where he fed the old system more than norm

He dosed nitrate and phosphate not ammonia, into the new tank, to suppress uglies

You can clearly read at the start he merely connected the new dry tank via shared pipe with old tank and in 20 days it was cycled, because reef water has millions of free transmissible bac to share. Read beyond his initial summary you're gaining opposite of the threads message and proof.

Read up to the part where he used salifert ammonia testing in the new tank to deem it ready

Then he began using the new tank, dosing the nitrate and phosphate to bring it up to par

None of this used bottle bacteria nor ammonia added, the hallmarks of dry rock cycling.

Oh I don’t know. Maybe line 3.


EDIT:

In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following:

1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels.

2. Take your skimmer and filter socks offline (or don’t clean them) until your NO3 and PO4 are stable and consistently matches established tank prior to connecting.

2. Don’t freak out if you have a bacterial bloom in the beginning, it will clear up after a day or so.

3. Overfeed your tank (assuming new system is substantially larger) in the beginning as the additional water volume has diluted your system but watch NO3 and especially PO4 closely.

4. Don’t run lighting on the new tank during this process.

5. Obviously, monitor your alk, calcium, mag and adjust dosing as needed and be sure to dose the new tank up/down to established tank levels prior to connecting.

 

[brandon429]

Read post 12 in the link

See the outcome in subsequent pages

You only scanned the summary post.

 

[brandon429]

anyone who studies bacteria vs tries to sell it would never think we could aim direct water current over live rocks and surfaces that constantly exude waste and aggregates into suspension (nobody owns a reef tank where a single drop of water would be devoid of rafts, check it) and not be transmitting copious bacteria via the water to any surface that the rafts can land on and stick/lodge.

for example, any reefer can take out a live rock and clean it off very well, very very well.


set it in a white clean bucket of saltwater with a powerhead, check the bottom of the white bucket in 24 hours. it's not clear, its got castings littered about, all surfaces in a reef tank constantly shed exudates of various composition, which is how we cycled his new tank in 20 days free of charge by solely connecting it with a transfer pipe to the new reef tank. where you got confused: his thread is a blend of two distinct actions-cycling a totally dry system off water alone, and proving it with a salifert ammonia test, and then the second part is him showing how to deftly guide an all dry system into a master's reef tank without crashing it due to uglies. that part is pure artistry.

what you're relaying comes from sales articles, it's old cycling science, designed to make buyers think we need the bottled stuff. Dr. Tim also said those same claims, that reef tank water doesn't transmit bacteria


how about this: anyone here pull up aquabiomic's dna studies, which also use water samples from reef tanks

are bacteria in the dna samples uploaded by a thousand reefers, or are they sterile?

when we inspect via non sales sources, we can clearly see reef water has mass bacteria that are usable.

post 12

 

[brandon429]

for @TonyNPS your rock is perfect no action is needed currently. notice only the non-coralline areas have a small tint of algae taken on, this is normal for that quality rock and for the move effected with the strong lighting. there's no course of action currently due for sure, those were top quality rocks and corals you got, wow.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

Read post 12 in the link

See the outcome in subsequent pages

You only scanned the summary post.

So I read the whole post every comment.

let’s start with this. Is the bacteria in the water. YES I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT!
How ever the bacteris in the water column will not sustain a new tank. Adding Tank water or connecting the tanks IMO is the same as adding bottled bac (well I actually believe real water is better than bottled bac as you know it there but maybe bottled bac is more dense)

2 by running the system connected, how is this different than just cycling a tank (as you can cycle a tank without adding bac it might just take longer as the nitrifying bacteria are present in the air and pretty much everywhere in the environment) How ever I do think that hooking the tanks together and running tandem would definitely speed the process of developing the other strains of bacteria that seem to make mature tanks thrive as IMO they don’t just happen but develop over time.


3 he clearly stated overfeeding multiple times in the thread. Pics attached.

So we may be debating but not on the same issue.

Bacteria colonizes the hard scape of an aquarium which is why you can do a 100% water change without losing your nitrogen cycle. (This is the statement I have made) I have not said that bacteria isn’t also in the water column. I have said that there is t enough bacteria in the water column to instantly cycle a tank which you didn’t respond to.
His experiment consisted of connecting a tank to an existing tank for 30 days, then moving his hard scape to the new tank. Hypothetically I would think his success would have been hampered if he hadn’t moved his existing rock into the new tank. Would have probably still worked just not as well.

Here are the pics.

 

[brandon429]

A reef we cycled off ocean water only

Nano Build - First 8.5G cube tank, ocean water, learning curve.

Hi Everyone! I am totally new to this forum, and totally new to marine tanks! I have some experience in freshwater tanks and now it is a time to check if I can use my knowledge and have some fun with salt water. The aim is to not spend a fortune, learn as much on my own and other mistakes and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reefering1]

So I read the whole post every comment.

let’s start with this. Is the bacteria in the water. YES I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT!
How ever the bacteris in the water column will not sustain a new tank. Adding Tank water or connecting the tanks IMO is the same as adding bottled bac (well I actually believe real water is better than bottled bac as you know it there but maybe bottled bac is more dense)

2 by running the system connected, how is this different than just cycling a tank (as you can cycle a tank without adding bac it might just take longer as the nitrifying bacteria are present in the air and pretty much everywhere in the environment) How ever I do think that hooking the tanks together and running tandem would definitely speed the process of developing the other strains of bacteria that seem to make mature tanks thrive as IMO they don’t just happen but develop over time.


3 he clearly stated overfeeding multiple times in the thread. Pics attached.

So we may be debating but not on the same issue.

Bacteria colonizes the hard scape of an aquarium which is why you can do a 100% water change without losing your nitrogen cycle. (This is the statement I have made) I have not said that bacteria isn’t also in the water column. I have said that there is t enough bacteria in the water column to instantly cycle a tank which you didn’t respond to.
His experiment consisted of connecting a tank to an existing tank for 30 days, then moving his hard scape to the new tank. Hypothetically I would think his success would have been hampered if he hadn’t moved his existing rock into the new tank. Would have probably still worked just not as well.

Here are the pics.

My take was that he overfed to keep nitrates and phosphate from bottoming out after diluting the main tank by plumbing in second tank.

 

[brandon429]

the end of cycle was first in the thread we see, the part where he ammonia tests via salifert

All the nitrate and phosphate tuning in benefit came after, for the benefit of the new tank.

I personally would have wanted a little more ammonia proofing contrast in pics, but he was in person, he says he sees the ammonia rise and fall.


We don't require testing in updated cycling threads (we have a forty page testless cycling thread currently running) but it was applied there for the benefit of those who ascribe to cycling models from the 90s. Older methods of cycling depend on what test kits say for the mark of a closed cycle, I feel his degree of bioload carry move over after we did water based cycling counts as proof of copious water transmissibilty of cycling bacteria. We gave double the time a cycling chart shows for ammonia control, ten days, as the predicted self cycle end date in Tuffloud's thread.

The point of his thread was that the new tanks current feed + current sloughing of bacteria was enough to seed any other system, free. he didn't have to add more bacteria or feed above current state to get double the bacteria output on demand: he only had to add more surface area into the water flow

Updated cycling science is about surface area not the hunt for lost bacteria. You give the excess bacteria in everyone's water more vital implantable space, you get unlimited filter material seeding without having to add more feed in the main tank. That's the point of the cycling part of his thread.

One major incorrect tenet old cycling science holds is that bacteria only grow relative to the degree of supply in the display

That is wrong, reef tanks pump out copious extra bacteria - they are your skimmate complexes and your never-ending floc from tank waste caught in roller mats, the sandbed etc. Reefs are positive production. They don't reach bacterial production threshold, they have resources to share we show

Cycling bottle bac only affect the time scale portion of reef tank cycling, they speed it up. They aren't required to cycle, free ways can provide that very predictably.

We have an additional thread handy of a water based cycle in another tank using only imagitarium ocean water and sand and dry rocks.




These current linked examples in my opinion show alternate sources for cycling bacteria. I don't recall seeing reef tank articles discussing these alternate sources, at least we can use work threads to set the alternate rule.

 

[HankstankXXXL750]

My take was that he overfed to keep nitrates and phosphate from bottoming out after diluting the main tank by plumbing in second tank.

Absolutely which first breaks down to ammonia then to nitrite and then to nitrate. The exact thing to cycling a tank. The added ammonia equals a large load feeding the bacteria.