Aiming no Water Change & Low Nitrates, currently above 100 ppm

[rajdeepsaha]

Hi, Rajdeep here from India & running a 1.5 years old 70 gallon Fish+Anemone tank (3x2x1.5ft)+Sump (no corals) with typically high bioload, however ample rocks, ceramic rings, some Matrix/denitrate, Chiller, skimmer, UV, Chaeto, Filter Pads are running in the sump. I feed hikari pellets twice & Ocean Nutrition flakes once daily, no food left uneaten (total thrice). Fishes look super healthy & Anemones look fine too (ALL 1.5yrs old Picture attached). My Salinity is 1.024, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, kH 8, pH 8.4 ish, Temp 29c, BUT Nitrates have been over 80-100ppm or more for nearly a year. Have both API & Salifert Nitrate Test Kit & they all match the color of 100/160 (they could be higher too). I have successfully dosed Baking Soda & seen kH increase and seems to be required once in 3-4months (it went to zero in the past & clown scales looked dry & worn - no slime coating). I HAVE NOT DONE A WATER CHANGE IN 9 months. Water is crystal clear all livestock are healthy. But I want to have my nitrates low & not perform water change as I have seen many reefers do.

Noticed, my kH was 11-12 less than a week ago after I added baking soda (kH was low 4) & 2 days back have started adding 4ml of Vinegar daily as Carbon Dosing. Total 8ml added so far in 2 days & kH down to 7-8. Nitrates are ofcourse still the same (too early to work i guess). Final Question: Aiming No water change with regular filter pad,etc cleaning - what do I need to do to have low nitrates with other parameters also remaining stable as they have been the last 1year. P.S - I have never tested Phosphates (no corals) but they apparently come from pellet food so my tank should have some for carbon dosing to work.

 

[eliaslikesfish]

yo that’s a lot of fish that belong in a 125G+. for a 70G and no water changes i’m not surprised your nitrates are hitting 100.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

yo that’s a lot of fish that belong in a 125G+. for a 70G and no water changes i’m not surprised your nitrates are hitting 100.

That’s what I was thinking too. That’s a lot of larger fish in a 70g

 

[rajdeepsaha]

yo that’s a lot of fish that belong in a 125G+. for a 70G and no w

That’s what I was thinking too. That’s a lot of larger fish in a 70g

Hi Elias & Gumbies, I truly agree with you 100% & wish to sell of few of the fishes soon. They have grown to this size in my tank in last 1.5 years & hence so large now. The blue tang is 7 inches almost from 2 inches. But until then I need to figure out how to control my Nitrates. Hope you understand.

Thanks,
Rajdeep

 

[eliaslikesfish]

Hi Elias & Gumbies, I truly agree with you 100% & wish to sell of few of the fishes soon. They have grown to this size in my tank in last 1.5 years & hence so large now. The blue tang is 7 inches almost from 2 inches. But until then I need to figure out how to control my Nitrates. Hope you understand.

Thanks,
Rajdeep

or until then you could rehome them and that will help a lot with your high nitrates. the bioload is simply too large, especially with no water changes. removing some fish i think is going to be a great first move.

 

[rajdeepsaha]

or until then you could rehome them and that will help a lot with your high nitrates. the bioload is simply too large, especially with no water changes. removing some fish i think is going to be a great first move.

Spoke to my LFS, they are out of town for some tank installation & will be back in 2 weeks. This is India & I am not aware of any other in the hobby. Another LFS would not take in a fish that isn't theirs. Please suggest whether to continue Carbon Dosing or stop?

 

[UMALUM]

I think you'd be the perfect candidate for an oversized ATS. I don't personally own one but I've read they eat nitrate up real quick. Carbon dosing under your circumstances seems like it would be an uphill battle and probably not do your livestock any favors along the way.

 

[rtparty]

What are your phosphates at?

The answer is thankfully simple here. Too big of fish for the system. You may also have too many nitrifiers or at least you have media promoting nitrification. This media is converting the ammonia so rapidly the chaeto doesn’t have a chance at it.

 

[rajdeepsaha]

I think you'd be the perfect candidate for an oversized ATS. I don't personally own one but I've read they eat nitrate up real quick. Carbon dosing under your circumstances seems like it would be an uphill battle and probably not do your livestock any favors along the way.

just checked for ATS & they are super expensive & not available in India, needs to be imported & looks like a dead end. My Chaeto Grows heavily but seems that isnt enough.

 

[rajdeepsaha]

What are your phosphates at?

The answer is thankfully simple here. Too big of fish for the system. You may also have too many nitrifiers or at least you have media promoting nitrification. This media is converting the ammonia so rapidly the chaeto doesn’t have a chance at it.

I have never tested Phosphates since I have no corals but they apparently should come from pellet food so my tank should have some for carbon dosing to work. Yes lots of fish for this sized system & indeed enough Nitrifiers are there due to which ammonia & nitrites are always zero but I knew chaeto to absorb Nitrates directly to grow & mine grows well too, but guess Nitrates are still too high. Only thing i could think about is Carbon Dosing in an economical way. I can buy & add 1-2kg of Matrix but dont think that would help much considering it would take time for anaerobic bacteria to grow & maybe it still wont be enough volume to bring down 100ppm?

 

[eliaslikesfish]

I have never tested Phosphates since I have no corals but they apparently should come from pellet food so my tank should have some for carbon dosing to work. Yes lots of fish for this sized system & indeed enough Nitrifiers are there due to which ammonia & nitrites are always zero but I knew chaeto to absorb Nitrates directly to grow & mine grows well too, but guess Nitrates are still too high. Only thing i could think about is Carbon Dosing in an economical way. I can buy & add 1-2kg of Matrix but dont think that would help much considering it would take time for anaerobic bacteria to grow & maybe it still wont be enough volume to bring down 100ppm?

don’t you have an anemone? they are also affected by phosphate levels.

 

[Dburr1014]

I have never tested Phosphates since I have no corals but they apparently should come from pellet food so my tank should have some for carbon dosing to work. Yes lots of fish for this sized system & indeed enough Nitrifiers are there due to which ammonia & nitrites are always zero but I knew chaeto to absorb Nitrates directly to grow & mine grows well too, but guess Nitrates are still too high. Only thing i could think about is Carbon Dosing in an economical way. I can buy & add 1-2kg of Matrix but dont think that would help much considering it would take time for anaerobic bacteria to grow & maybe it still wont be enough volume to bring down 100ppm?

Perhaps take out the ceramic rings(nitrate factory) and up the carbon dosing.

 

[rajdeepsaha]

don’t you have an anemone? they are also affected by phosphate levels.

I did not know that & just checked it out too, looks like it matters. I will get a phosphate test too, thanks. Lets see what crazy numbers they are in.

Perhaps take out the ceramic rings(nitrate factory) and up the carbon dosing.

i know there is detritus accumulation on my ceramic bars & rings, I cleaned some off from the top but underneath there's surely more. But I am scared wont it crash the tank? due to the removal of the rings, if ammonia & nitrite levels start increasing, i would be introducing a new problem that isnt there now. There is ample rock still but I do not know who is contributing to how much nitrification. Please suggest.

 

[Dburr1014]

I did not know that & just checked it out too, looks like it matters. I will get a phosphate test too, thanks. Lets see what crazy numbers they are in.

i know there is detritus accumulation on my ceramic bars & rings, I cleaned some off from the top but underneath there's surely more. But I am scared wont it crash the tank? due to the removal of the rings, if ammonia & nitrite levels start increasing, i would be introducing a new problem that isnt there now. There is ample rock still but I do not know who is contributing to how much nitrification. Please suggest.

Remove 1/4 weekly and see if it changes weekly.

 

[rajdeepsaha]

Remove 1/4 weekly and see if it changes weekly.

Thanks for that, I'll try it. Phosphate test on the way & I do have Prime handy incase ammonia nitrite spikes occur. However if you can please help me better understand how removing some of the Ceramic Rings (nitrifying bacterial colonies) will help with my denitrification. Based on what minimal i learnt so far (truly! only 1.5years in the hobby), I knew both Chaeto to grow or Anaerobic Bacteria to break down Carbon Sources like Vodka or Vinegar - Both require Nitrate+somePhosphate specifically, thereby reducing my high Nitrate levels. So will having additional ammonia or nitrite in the tank (after removing ceramic rings) amplify the power of the anaerobic bacteria during carbon dosing? or Chaeto will grow more & Nitrates will go down faster?

 

[Dburr1014]

Thanks for that, I'll try it. Phosphate test on the way & I do have Prime handy incase ammonia nitrite spikes occur.

Prime doesn't do anything for ammonia even though it claims it does.

Thread 'A Deep Dive on Ammonia Neutralizer Chemistry - Prime, ClorAm-X, Rongalite and friends.' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/

However if you can please help me better understand how removing some of the Ceramic Rings (nitrifying bacterial colonies) will help with my denitrification.

They are considered a nitrate factory. Leaving nitrate in your system because they can not break it down further.

Ceramic Rings (Are they really so bad?) - Reef Central Online Community

Ceramic Rings (Are they really so bad?) New to the Hobby

www.reefcentral.com

Maybe some more rock or a fleece roller would be better in your situation.

 

[rajdeepsaha]

don’t you have an anemone? they are also affected by phosphate levels.

so i got the Salifert phosphate test & turns out i have 1ppm, nitrates are still over 100ppm. My LFS will take the fish for free only (even though they are super healthy & 3-4 times the size when i bought it from him). No friends with marine tanks. Still hung up whether to just donate the fish away. Will clean up the detritus from my sump that has collected over my Ceramic bars + rings & remove some to make place for a DIY Bio Pellet Bottle Reactor. Should be able to bring down my nitrates & phosphate (16:1). Will put it beside my skimmer for better effect. Any thoughts?

 

[rajdeepsaha]

So i did the biggest water change ever on my tank - 50%, cleaned all detritus, omg there was so much. But i did not technically rinse my bio-media. Only stirred in saltwater & got the goo to come out. Unfortunately, Nitrates are still 80-100ppm plus and Phosphates are little less than 1ppm. That would mean nitrates were 200 or even more maybe so that after 50% water change its still 100 (or more). Planning on replacing all my ceramic rings with Seachem Matrix or just Rocks.

 

[ozs]

Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

Hello fellow reefers!. I have been in the hobby for more than 3 years, the first 2 years was tough. Cyno, diatom, nuisance algae, high NO3 (120ppm at one time) and ich/velvet. I have tried several nutrient control method (poor man, so most of it were DIY project). GFO, water fall scrubber...

www.reef2reef.com

Maybe give that thread a read. I think all of the equipment you would need you'd be able to get your hands on.

 

[rc1]

Prime doesn't do anything for ammonia even though it claims it does.

Thread 'A Deep Dive on Ammonia Neutralizer Chemistry - Prime, ClorAm-X, Rongalite and friends.' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/



They are considered a nitrate factory. Leaving nitrate in your system because they can not break it down further.

Ceramic Rings (Are they really so bad?) - Reef Central Online Community

Ceramic Rings (Are they really so bad?) New to the Hobby

www.reefcentral.com

Maybe some more rock or a fleece roller would be better in your situation.

I have a fleece roller + Skimmer + macro and I am still over 160