Adding Alk without increasing PH with AFR and Bicarbonate

[Ziggy17]

Hi all,

Question. Can I add Alk without raising PH using a DIY bicarbonate solution and use AFR as my Calcium and Mag dose?

I’m currently using BA Alkalin 8.3-P to keep my Alk at 8.3 Dkh and I use AFR o supplement the cal and mag losses. I hand dose twice daily. However, my PH swings into the high 8.4s at night. Brightwell claims their KH buffer won’t elevate Ph beyond a stable 8.3, but my experience does not support that claim.
My tank is a 80g total volume running with about 70 gallons of actual water volume with rock and sand. I have 3 smaller sized torches, a large colony of branching hammer, two smaller hammers, 2 favia frags, birdsnest, small zoa garden, And a couple monti cap frags. All in all, a light coral load right now until things get bigger. My daily alk consumption is now around the .20 Dkh, however my calcium consumption is less than 2 ppm and mag is around 5 ppm daily.
My NO3 flexes between 15-20 ppm but otherwise stable in that range for about a year. I do water changes of about 15% every 2 weeks but slowly moving toward a monthly WC of the same volume

Can I mix a stand alone bicarbonate solution to replace the Alkalin 8.3-P? If so, is there a quick recipe?

I’m trying to avoid doing a standard 3 part recipe and using the above as a hybrid as it’s a bit more manageable for my circumstance. I also want to continue hand dosing in the morning and at night.

I apologize if all the needed info isn’t there, but hoping there’s enough to start a conversation. Also, I’m just passing my first year in reefing, so I’m not an expert or have above average knowledge, but I’m a quick learner.

Thanks in advance.

Zig.

 

[KStatefan]

AFR will also add alk. Why not just use it alone?

 

[Ziggy17]

AFR will also add alk. Why not just use it alone?

That’s a good question that I left out of the initial post.
It increases my calcium and Magnesium too high to stay at 8.3 DKH
My target mag is around 1420 and calcium 450

 

[Miami Reef]

AFR will have a VERY slight pH decrease, but it’s mainly pH neutral. It maintains alk, Ca, and Mag in a balanced one-additive.

It increases my calcium and Magnesium too high to stay at 8.3 DKH

Most likely the magnesium test is inaccurate, unless you overdosed magnesium with epsom salt or magnesium chloride. It’s actually recommended to not test magnesium.

Calcium is fine within 400-550ppm. If your calcium and magnesium are too high, you can just use sodium bicarbonate to maintain alk until the calcium trends down.

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m currently using BA Alkalin 8.3-P to keep my Alk at 8.3 Dkh and I use AFR o supplement the cal and mag losses. I hand dose twice daily. However, my PH swings into the high 8.4s at night. Brightwell claims their KH buffer won’t elevate Ph beyond a stable 8.3, but my experience does not support that claim.

Brightwell 8.3 is just sodium hydroxide, which is a high pH, alk additive.

I would only use a balanced system so you don’t have to chase and balance different parameters. It’s much easier to dose a balanced system to maintain alk, and naturally have calcium and magnesium within range.

 

[Ziggy17]

AFR will have a VERY slight pH decrease, but it’s mainly pH neutral. It maintains alk, Ca, and Mag in a balanced one-additive.


Most likely the magnesium test is inaccurate.

Calcium is fine within 400-550ppm. If your calcium and magnesium are too high, you can just use sodium bicarbonate to maintain alk until the calcium trends down.

I use a trident to test Calcium, Alk and Mag.

 

[Miami Reef]

My daily alk consumption is now around the .20 Dkh, however my calcium consumption is less than 2 ppm and mag is around 5 ppm daily.

Impossible. Even coralline algae, which is one of the highest magnesium user, consumes alk, Ca, and Mg in this exact ratio:

Alk: 2.8dKH, Ca 18-20ppm, Magnesium 1-2ppm.

If your consumption is .2dKH, then the highest magnesium can possibly deplete is 0.14ppm per day. That is assuming the only thing consuming the alkalinity is coralline. In reality, it’s even less.

Coralline is the biggest consumer of magnesium.

Magnesium testing is simply not accurate enough.

 

[Ziggy17]

Impossible. Even coralline algae, which is one of the highest magnesium user, consumes alk, Ca, and Mg in this exact ratio:

Alk: 2.8dKH, Ca 18-20ppm, Magnesium 1-2ppm.

If your consumption is .2dKH, then the highest magnesium can possibly deplete is 0.14ppm per day. That is assuming the only thing consuming the alkalinity is coralline. In reality, it’s even less.

Coralline is the biggest consumer of magnesium.

Magnesium testing is simply not accurate enough.

Correction to .5 from 5ppm

 

[Ziggy17]

I appreciate the responses, I truly do, however I did my best to ask a very specific question.

Can I use a DIY bicarbonate solution along with the AFR?

If so, what is the recipe into 1 litre of RODI ?

 

[Miami Reef]

Can I use a DIY bicarbonate solution along with the AFR?

If so, what is the recipe into 1 litre of RODI ?

Yes.

79.8g sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) per liter RO/DI.

Use this calculator and select “BRS liquid sodium bicarbonate”

Alkalinity Supplement Calculator - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Recipe source:

Fill a 1-gallon container 4/5 full of RO/DI or distilled water and add 1 cup and 2 tablespoons (302 grams) of BRS Pharma Sodium Bicarbonate.

Bulk Pharma Sodium Bicarbonate 7 Pounds

Ideal for large changes in alkalinity levels or daily dosing in aquariums with high pH. Bulk Pharma Sodium Bicarbonate - Ultra-pure Alkalinity Additive for your Reef Tank! Bulk Reef Supply 2-part additives are the perfect solution to replenish the intake of calcium and alkalinity coral consumes...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Ziggy17]

Yes.

79.8g sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) per liter RO/DI.

Use this calculator and select “BRS liquid sodium bicarbonate”

Alkalinity Supplement Calculator - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Much appreciate Sir.

 

[Miami Reef]

Much appreciate Sir.

You’re welcome. If you only use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), the calcium and magnesium will slowly trend downward, assuming you aren’t dosing anything to increase them.

 

[Ziggy17]

You’re welcome. If you only use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), the calcium and magnesium will slowly trend downward, assuming you aren’t dosing anything to increase them.

Exactly. That’s why I wanted to ask if it was safe to use a DIY alk recipe with all for reef. I didn’t want to upset the balance but still increase alk without jacking up calcium and mag. Because my calcium and mag demands are so much lower than alk, I needed a homemade “balling B” solution. The more i researched the topic, the more I became aware of imbalances causing precipitation issues. I just wanted to be sure it was ok. Also, to find the stand alone recipe was a bit hard as it gets buried in threads.

So I really do thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I appreciate the responses, I truly do, however I did my best to ask a very specific question.

Can I use a DIY bicarbonate solution along with the AFR?

If so, what is the recipe into 1 litre of RODI ?

I feel the need to defend how folks answered.

Folks correctly pointed out the flaw in the premise of your initial question. It puts knowledgeable folks in a conundrum when the premise is misleading. I do not advise folks to just answer flawed questions.

I’m glad Miami was able to provide the correct nuanced answer.

Happy Reefing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Because my calcium and mag demands are so much lower than alk, I needed a homemade “balling B” solution. The more i researched the topic, the more I became aware of imbalances causing precipitation issues. I just wanted to be sure it was ok. Also, to find the stand alone recipe was a bit hard as it gets buried in threads.

So I really do thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

The diy recipes of many sorts are in the stickies at the top of the forum.

I still believe that premise is wrong. I just want to be sure others do not read it and come away with a misimpression of what happens in reef tanks.

There are just a few processes that consume alk and not calcium and magnesium in the exact ratios Miami gave. A sulfur denitrator is one, and rising nitrate is another. The most common ones are water changes with parameters that do not match the tank, and test error.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Brightwell 8.3 is just sodium hydroxide, which is a high pH, alk additive.

I would only use a balanced system so you don’t have to chase and balance different parameters. It’s much easier to dose a balanced system to maintain alk, and naturally have calcium and magnesium within range.

The 8.3 is a mix of mostly bicarbonate and a little carbonate. It’s the pH Boost plus that is the hydroxide.

 

[knockout]

But AFR if used in the proper dosage WILL add the necessary Alk to the tank, that being said, I do what you want to accomplish because I want a higher Alk than AFR can provide without elevating CAL and MAG over the recommended levels

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But AFR if used in the proper dosage WILL add the necessary Alk to the tank, that being said, I do what you want to accomplish because I want a higher Alk than AFR can provide without elevating CAL and MAG over the recommended levels

If you want a higher alk, AFR will still generally work. It only adds 20 ppm of calcium for a 2.8 dKH alk boost, and the mag rise will be undetectable.

 

[Miami Reef]

The 8.3 is a mix of mostly bicarbonate and a little carbonate. It’s the pH Boost plus that is the hydroxide.

Thank you for the correction.

 

[knockout]

If you want a higher alk, AFR will still generally work. It only adds 20 ppm of calcium for a 2.8 dKH alk boost, and the mag rise will be undetectable.

In my experience AFR maintains my Alk at about 7 dKH, while Calcium is 450+ and MAG near 1400

I have to dose additional Alk to bring it to 8-9