Acros not doing great, Stylos doing amazing??

MartinM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,266
Reaction score
1,191
Location
Japan
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m not new to marine aquariums (nearly 30 years) but I am new (~1.5 years) to SPS.

I have a 1000L system. It’s mostly clam and anemone dominated (10 clams, 3 large mags, one large S. Haddoni, one large BTA I wish I could remove) but also 3 small acro colonies, one small digitata colony, two large purple stylophora colonies, and a few acro, monti, and stylo frags. The system is coming up on 2 years old in December.

Here’s what does amazing: clams, anemones, and stylos. The small clams grow like weeds, the bigger clams continually put on growth, the anemones have doubled in size (or more) in a year. The stylos grow like crazy: the newest colony went from smaller than a fist to several cm larger than a softball in three months, the large colony went from a small colony to the size of a soccer ball in about a year. They form round, dense colonies similar to what they look like on reefs for me, rather than the branching style this same colony tends to do in reef tanks (I got it fragged from a mother colony at my LFS, the mother colony is much less dense than mine, probably from lower water flow). PE on the stylos is amazing, they look furry all the time. Same for the digitata. The digitata colony and frags grow just fine I think, about 1/4th the rate of the stylos (the stylos are the fastest growing coral of any type I’ve ever kept).

However, the acros hate my system. They’ve all turned (and stayed) brown. Some have died back. Others have barely grown. PE is poor. I don’t know why. I’ve tried frags and other colonies and lost them, slowly but surely. :( I’m not going to get any more until if/when I get the ones I have back to health.

Params are always consistent: alk is maintained at 10 by Alkatronic, CA about 450, both via tropic Marin AFR and kalkwasser. Ph stays steady around 8.25 and doesn’t dip much at night (large clams in the fuge help with this). Mg is always around 1300. Nitrates are always 1ppm and PO4 is always .01. I do bacterial dosing (microbacter 7, 10ml/day) and does 5mL/day of TM’s pink carbon source (forget the name). It’s a bacterial driven system I think, I don’t get algae on the glass, just white bacteria film and coralline. I feed heavily: fish get about 5 frozen cubes/day, and in a 24 hour period I feed about 75mL combined of Reef Nutrition, Roti-feast, Oyster-feast and SDaquarist Phyto, as well as about 50mL of Red Sea AB+, as well as freeze dried krill and reef nutrition pellets of various sizes. A few times a week the system gets mysis-feast, R.O.E, and arcti-pods also. Temp is always maintained +/- .3 degrees C via a Teco chiller/heater.

The tank has about 50kg of live rock (from the ocean) that’s still full of life after almost 2 years (sponges, tunicates, oysters, encrusting corals) and I have a lot of various species of snails and limpets (some breed like crazy), including, unfortunately, vermetid snails). Sand bed is very alive, with tube worms poking out of it, and it gets turnover from conchs, snails, sea cucumbers, sleeper goby, and diamond gobies.

Lighting is 14k halides and T5’s. Acros sit at about ~300 PAR (halide glitter lines make this bounce up and down by +/- 50, but I’d say that’s the average). Stylos are less, around 225. The half of the tank the acros are in gets a lot of turbulent water motion, while the right side is designed to be calmer for the clams. Stylos share in the turbulent water motion. Skimmer is a massive Reef Octopus Regal 250-E. I use about 150mL of activated carbon and change it every week very consistently. No mechanical filtration (unless you count the mesh sock the carbon is in, maybe 200 microns).

Ok, I think I’ve brain dumped everything about the system I can think of. Interested to get some input from you acro experts!
 
Last edited:

PBar

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
283
Reaction score
342
Location
BE
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hallo MartinM,
Thanks for the detailed description. Still, it is a challenge to spot the source of the problem.
At the moment, mostly guesses we could do.
However, before that, it would be nice if you could post a picture of the full tank and also of the filtration system (sump).

The picture doesn’t need to be fancy, just to give a general view!

Cheers!
 

Dburr1014

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
11,300
Reaction score
10,981
Location
CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m not new to marine aquariums (nearly 30 years) but I am new (~1.5 years) to SPS.

I have a 1000L system. It’s mostly clam and anemone dominated (10 clams, 3 large mags, one large S. Haddoni, one large BTA I wish I could remove) but also 3 small acro colonies, one small digitata colony, two large purple stylophora colonies, and a few acro, monti, and stylo frags. The system is coming up on 2 years old in December.

Here’s what does amazing: clams, anemones, and stylos. The small clams grow like weeds, the bigger clams continually put on growth, the anemones have doubled in size (or more) in a year. The stylos grow like crazy: the newest colony went from smaller than a fist to several cm larger than a softball in three months, the large colony went from a small colony to the size of a soccer ball in about a year. They form round, dense colonies similar to what they look like on reefs for me, rather than the branching style this same colony tends to do in reef tanks (I got it fragged from a mother colony at my LFS, the mother colony is much less dense than mine, probably from lower water flow). PE on the stylos is amazing, they look furry all the time. Same for the digitata. The digitata colony and frags grow just fine I think, about 1/4th the rate of the stylos (the stylos are the fastest growing coral of any type I’ve ever kept).

However, the acros hate my system. They’ve all turned (and stayed) brown. Some have died back. Others have barely grown. PE is poor. I don’t know why. I’ve tried frags and other colonies and lost them, slowly but surely. :( I’m not going to get any more until if/when I get the ones I have back to health.

Params are always consistent: alk is maintained at 10 by Alkatronic, CA about 450, both via tropic Marin AFR and kalkwasser. Ph stays steady around 8.25 and doesn’t dip much at night (large clams in the fuge help with this). Mg is always around 1300. Nitrates are always 1ppm and PO4 is always .01. I do bacterial dosing (microbacter 7, 10ml/day) and does 5mL/day of TM’s pink carbon source (forget the name). It’s a bacterial driven system I think, I don’t get algae on the glass, just white bacteria film and coralline. I feed heavily: fish get about 5 frozen cubes/day, and in a 24 hour period I feed about 75mL combined of Reef Nutrition, Roti-feast, Oyster-feast and SDaquarist Phyto, as well as about 50mL of Red Sea AB+, as well as freeze dried krill and reef nutrition pellets of various sizes. A few times a week the system gets mysis-feast, R.O.E, and arcti-pods also. Temp is always maintained +/- .3 degrees C via a Teco chiller/heater.

The tank has about 50kg of live rock (from the ocean) that’s still full of life after almost 2 years (sponges, tunicates, oysters, encrusting corals) and I have a lot of various species of snails and limpets (some breed like crazy), including, unfortunately, vermetid snails). Sand bed is very alive, with tube worms poking out of it, and it gets turnover from conchs, snails, sea cucumbers, sleeper goby, and diamond gobies.

Lighting is 14k halides and T5’s. Acros sit at about ~300 PAR (halide glitter lines make this bounce up and down by +/- 50, but I’d say that’s the average). Stylos are less, around 225. The half of the tank the acros are in gets a lot of turbulent water motion, while the right side is designed to be calmer for the clams. Stylos share in the turbulent water motion. Skimmer is a massive Reef Octopus Regal 250-E. I use about 150mL of activated carbon and change it every week very consistently. No mechanical filtration (unless you count the mesh sock the carbon is in, maybe 200 microns).

Ok, I think I’ve brain dumped everything about the system I can think of. Interested to get some input from you acro experts!
First thing I would try is to bump up nutrients.
0.01 po4 is low for most systems.
Try 0.03 or more.
No3 is okay or you could bump up to 5ppm. Not so much important tho.
 
OP
OP
MartinM

MartinM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,266
Reaction score
1,191
Location
Japan
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’ll get some photos.

I’ve tried to increase PO4. The tank (clams) strip it out very fast. I’ll bump up the dosing on the AB+ to see if that helps.

I’ve also considered not using a skimmer. My 200L system doesn’t have a skimmer and it’s doing better than this one…nutrients measure the same on it though (it also has a lot of clams).

I could also dial back the microbacter dosing?
 

PBar

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
283
Reaction score
342
Location
BE
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dear MartinM,
Just one side remark before the pictures:
If you want to increase the nutrients, then I would suggest to decrease or stop completely the bacteria & carbon dosing.

And indeed, for a low nutrients tank, the alk is rather high.

Cheers!
 

thatmanMIKEson

Reefing ain't easy$
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5,104
Reaction score
5,133
Location
florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’ll get some photos.

I’ve tried to increase PO4. The tank (clams) strip it out very fast. I’ll bump up the dosing on the AB+ to see if that helps.

I’ve also considered not using a skimmer. My 200L system doesn’t have a skimmer and it’s doing better than this one…nutrients measure the same on it though (it also has a lot of clams).

I could also dial back the microbacter dosing?
Microbactor7 and ab+ will lower nutrients along with that carbon source you dump in everyday. Why so much mb7?

Have you tried adding a clean n03 and p04 source?

ULN is around .02-.03 p04 and 3-5n03 you are running pretty low
 

spsick

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
1,599
Reaction score
1,923
Location
Mpls, MN
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Only thing that jumps out at me is what others mentioned- high alk for a low nutrient system. I would be closer to 7dkh if it were my system, but don’t go changing up your settled tank chemistry quickly!

If a lot of thing are doing great and a few are not- you can decide which is priority and lean into that. Tough decision I am also grappling with. Acro dominated system that also has lps which I struggle to keep out of the light and heavy flow.
 

Dburr1014

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
11,300
Reaction score
10,981
Location
CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
There are a bunch of things you can do to get the water a little dirtier even having to do anything much different.
Like,
Part time skimming
Change filters less often
Feed a little more ( least favorite because you feed heavier already)

As mentioned already, your alk is a little high for your nutrients. Maybe you can bump that down to 9 just to try that out.

These are changes that should not be done all at once mind you. If it were my system, I would try to bump the po4 to 0.02/0.03 and reduce your alkalinity to 9 dkh.
And see how it goes for a few weeks. If you see Improvement great, if not, pump up the po4 slightly more and your no3. See how that goes.
 
OP
OP
MartinM

MartinM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,266
Reaction score
1,191
Location
Japan
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Great advice everyone - the things that are doing great are the things pulling the food out of the water the most efficiently - or getting fed directly. I’ll drop the MB to 5mL and increase feeding. I’ll slowly drop alk to 9 also.

I haven’t tried a pure source for dosing, I might try that also.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
MartinM

MartinM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,266
Reaction score
1,191
Location
Japan
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Some photos:
A638C134-4158-4FBC-A68E-5C6F9FBD2A75.jpeg
3B3EE3CB-2E88-4D62-9672-A561D6C5851C.jpeg
A8FDD374-1803-4D5B-AF12-F3F68E44E4E7.jpeg
3BF88999-FD74-42FF-B25D-9854EBA779E9.jpeg
60C9F376-FC91-40A4-A2D5-799838E7D18A.jpeg
C43D04E6-53CA-461D-9316-9840DE033689.jpeg
01BB0F09-4730-4DC2-8177-71BD55AD3436.jpeg


The left side has a LOT more turbulent water flow, the right side is calm enough to keep the clam mantles mainly still. The MP40 on the back in the middle does a good job at dividing the flow into two sections. The right side doesn’t have an MP40, but the left side does. In the back corner on each side are two Vesta wave pumps.

Btw the Bacto Balance I’m using isn’t designed to lower nutrients, I believe it’s designed to add nutrients and make them more bio available to corals. @Lou Ekus am I correct in this assumption? If I’m having trouble maintaining elevated nutrients, should I stop or switch to another product?
 
Last edited:

thatmanMIKEson

Reefing ain't easy$
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5,104
Reaction score
5,133
Location
florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Some photos:
A638C134-4158-4FBC-A68E-5C6F9FBD2A75.jpeg
3B3EE3CB-2E88-4D62-9672-A561D6C5851C.jpeg
A8FDD374-1803-4D5B-AF12-F3F68E44E4E7.jpeg
3BF88999-FD74-42FF-B25D-9854EBA779E9.jpeg


The left side has a LOT more turbulent water flow, the right side is calm enough to keep the clam mantles mainly still. The MP40 on the back in the middle does a good job at dividing the flow into two sections. The right side doesn’t have an MP40, but the left side does. In the back corner on each side are two Vesta wave pumps.

Btw the Bacto Balance I’m using isn’t designed to lower nutrients, I believe it’s designed to add nutrients and make them more bio available to corals. @Lou Ekus am I correct in this assumption? If I’m having trouble maintaining elevated nutrients, should I stop or switch to another product?
Dang love the look of M.H, awesome looking tank!
 
OP
OP
MartinM

MartinM

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
1,266
Reaction score
1,191
Location
Japan
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Slowly bringing down DKH and increased feeding a lot, they’re looking better. PE is normal, coloration hasn’t changed much but hopefully will. Progress!
 

Alexopora

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
883
Reaction score
811
Location
Malaysia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Have you considered if there are pests bothering your acros? I had red bugs and after a bayer dip, PE is like night and day.
Speaking of past. OP mentioned how the acros are constantly brown and PE poor. Perhaps AEFW (acropora eating flatworm)??
 

92Miata

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Messages
1,523
Reaction score
2,490
Location
Richmond, VA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dear MartinM,
Just one side remark before the pictures:
If you want to increase the nutrients, then I would suggest to decrease or stop completely the bacteria & carbon dosing.

And indeed, for a low nutrients tank, the alk is rather high.

Cheers!
Agree - dosing carbon, running AFR (which is a carbon source itself) and regularly dosing microbacter, at high alkalinity, is a lot.
 

HAVE YOU EVER KEPT A RARE/UNCOMMON FISH, CORAL, OR INVERT? SHOW IT OFF IN THE THREAD!

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top