acoel flatworm

[alexjoha]

Hi guys!

I have noticed a few flatworms and have now thx to you guys found out that it`s most likely a acoel flatworm.

I have tested a few ways to kill them in a container since i dont relay like to put chemicals in to my tank. So i would like to test the effects first.

So what i have done so far:

Dipped 10 corals in coral RX for 15min. Found 2 flatworms that i left in the solution for 1 houer. Didnt die of the solution and i had 10% more then recommended.

Dipped 5 corals in Seachem coral dip found 1 flatworm. left it in the solution for 1 hour. Still alive..

Next i tried a Salifert flatworm exit solutin but 5 times stronger then recommended on a few of the flatworms.. nothing happend for 1 hour..

So then i did a new experiment i took 40ml of tank water added 2 drops of flatworm exit. 2 flatworms and 2 copepods. The pods died instantly but the flatworms lived for 2 hours (had to go to bed) and in the morning they were dead.

So now Im left thinking that flatworm exit wont help with my flatworm situation since they didnt care less for the solution i made.. Do you guys have any good suggestions for what i should do?

I dont want to pull my entire reef apart to dip each stone since its glued to getter so either i need to dip the tank or i need to buy a wrass i guess.. what would you do?

Here is a video from the 40ml test:

and here is a video of them under 4x zoom and microscope:

 

[dbl]

Any suggestions here #reefsquad?

 

[kschweer]

You can try to get a predator that will eat them. Many wrasses will pick at them. I have heard of people having good success using melanarus wrasse to take care of them.

 

[Diesel]

Where did you find them on?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@Lionfish Lair Renee, are these just common detritivores or are they someting to be concerned about?

 

[Tahoe61]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/5/short

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...latworms-and-other-bugs-that-make-you-see-red

^ You may have already seen these articles. If not it might give you some different options.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

@Lionfish Lair Renee, are these just common detritivores or are they someting to be concerned about?

That's such a hard question for me. Would I be concerned?.... no, but I'm not sure my views are popular in the "flatworm world". They are not the toxic Convolutriloba, not the coral smothering Waminoa and not the AEFW and yet they are not the 100% harmless "Ghost Flatworms". A lot of these flatworms climb in numbers because we are feeding them (indirectly), yet a control isn't to just stop "feeding them" because they can then utilize the light in your tank to survive a while without actual food. So, ya, that can make them a pain for the eyes, but to me that's not a reason to medicate a tank. I've only ever removed them using a rigid airline and a syringe and have not needed to intervene more than a bit of "cleaning up". It's not instantaneous. I've also let them "take over" to see what they'll do.... in time they faded away. The three that I would be more concerned over is the three I mentioned above, the Convolutriloba, waminoa and the AEFW. If I scooped up some water from my tanks right now and put them under the microscope, I bet I would see a few flatworms. They are a very basic building block of our systems and you just can't kill the "one" type, but you do kill other things in the process. Maybe perhaps not anything you can see with the eye, but we all know there's microscopic things that are also super important.

Recently I was looking at my water and these are some of things I found... it's all ecosystem building blocks to me.

 

[alexjoha]

Where did you find them on?

They are mainly found on the glass. Havent seen them on the sand bed, i have seen different types of flatworms before and these art similar to anything i have seen before.

they are thiney and you realy need to get up realy close to see them, i can`t see them if i am 1 meter from the tank. i need to be 20cm from the glass and look inn from the side. you see one of the large once in the glass on the second video.

I havent found any on my shrooms or LPS when they got diped. but i have some in the sump and some on the main display glass. They dont seem to bother anything in the tank and i have great growth in the tank.
There are no bite marks on my SPS and there are no eggs that i can see and i have inspected them to my best ability..

They dont chace copepods and all the pods in my sump are 5 times larger then the flatworms. (i have watched them for 30min in my sump thats filled with different pods)

 

[alexjoha]

Recently I was looking at my water and these are some of things I found... it's all ecosystem building blocks to me.

I can promise you that flatworm exit in large quantetis kill copepods.. at least that is my conclusion after the test i did. They started to twitch after 2 seconds in the solution so i guess my pod population would get a hard hit if i used it on my tank. That would build up nutrients and i guess i will get a algae outbreak. If I am going to dose the tank then i will have to move all my inverts and my fish since i have gotten so attached to them and dont want to put them in harms way.

The microscoope I used was light from the underside is your light from the top? My flatworms look just like the once in your video when you see them on the glass of my aquarium...

 

[alexjoha]

The display tank is 152gallons and the sump has 39gallons of water volum. The system is about 8 months old so its fairly new. I just started noticing them after i started to feed my corals with Aquaforest coral foods like AF amino mix, AF Vitality, AF Phyto mix, AF Power food. My tank has the following mesurs : PO4: 0,03 (hanna checker) NO3/NO4 0 (redsea pro) ALK: 8.4dkh (hanna checker) CA: 430 (redsea pro) MG: 1600 (redsea pro) Iron: 0.05 (redsea pro) salinety: 1.026 temp: 25.8 celsius

here is a video of the tank:

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I do have quite the large collection of flatworms in my sump, but never see them in the dt. My fish are for the most part , all pickers.
So I for one prefer management over eradication.

That's such a hard question for me. Would I be concerned?.... no, but I'm not sure my views are popular in the "flatworm world". They are not the toxic Convolutriloba, not the coral smothering Waminoa and not the AEFW and yet they are not the 100% harmless "Ghost Flatworms". A lot of these flatworms climb in numbers because we are feeding them (indirectly), yet a control isn't to just stop "feeding them" because they can then utilize the light in your tank to survive a while without actual food. So, ya, that can make them a pain for the eyes, but to me that's not a reason to medicate a tank. I've only ever removed them using a rigid airline and a syringe and have not needed to intervene more than a bit of "cleaning up". It's not instantaneous. I've also let them "take over" to see what they'll do.... in time they faded away. The three that I would be more concerned over is the three I mentioned above, the Convolutriloba, waminoa and the AEFW. If I scooped up some water from my tanks right now and put them under the microscope, I bet I would see a few flatworms. They are a very basic building block of our systems and you just can't kill the "one" type, but you do kill other things in the process. Maybe perhaps not anything you can see with the eye, but we all know there's microscopic things that are also super important.

Recently I was looking at my water and these are some of things I found... it's all ecosystem building blocks to me.

Thanks Renee

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The display tank is 152gallons and the sump has 39gallons of water volum. The system is about 8 months old so its fairly new. I just started noticing them after i started to feed my corals with Aquaforest coral foods like AF amino mix, AF Vitality, AF Phyto mix, AF Power food. My tank has the following mesurs : PO4: 0,03 (hanna checker) NO3/NO4 0 (redsea pro) ALK: 8.4dkh (hanna checker) CA: 430 (redsea pro) MG: 1600 (redsea pro) Iron: 0.05 (redsea pro) salinety: 1.026 temp: 25.8 celsius

here is a video of the tank:

Beautiful

 

[Lionfish Lair]

There are so many different "flatworms" that it's next to impossible to ID them in this fashion. The common problematic ones that are common in our hobby ARE easily identifiable, so that's a good thing. Yours are not those "problematic ones". Because of that, the end doesn't justify the means in this instance (IMO, of course). There is no such thing as a treatment without side effects.

 

[alexjoha]

^ You may have already seen these articles. If not it might give you some different options.

Hi Tahoe61,

thank you for the links just i have more or less gone through everything i could find on google and asked around my local forums and many of my fellow reefers here in Norway and nobody has seen the exact type i have.
They dont look like any one of the once in the threads you linked too and it dosent have the middle tail. A friend of mine has the once with the tail in a frag system so i got to study them and they are about 10 times larger then the once i have in my system.

I have been considering buying a wrasse for the purpus to see if they could eat the flatworms but i realy dont want to add an aggressor like the sixline wrasse so i would like a peaceful one that would also eat them.
I have been looking at the mystery wrasse but i dont know if they hunt flatworms any experience ?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have a mandarin, a scooter blenny, a firefish, a ruby dragonet pair, a royal gramma, a talbot damsel, a dwarf cherub angel, and a striped blenny in my 55g. And no visible flatworms on the glass ever.
I am a little cheesed at my mandarin because I watched him rip a medusa/spagetti worm out of my sandbed, shred it and eat it.

 

[alexjoha]

There are so many different "flatworms" that it's next to impossible to ID them in this fashion. The common problematic ones that are common in our hobby ARE easily identifiable, so that's a good thing. Yours are not those "problematic ones". Because of that, the end doesn't justify the means in this instance (IMO, of course). There is no such thing as a treatment without side effects.

Only reason i can see for curing my tank with flatworm exit or to reboot the system is the moral code when and if i would like to give away frags or sell some to my friends so that i dont infect there tanks as well.
If they dont react to normal dips and dont die when i use large amounts of flatworm exit in a dip then i cant just sell frags and tell people "remember to dip" i have had/have flatworms.

and that is a real bummer for me since that would be a real show stopper for trading corals at coral meets and so on.. Im not willing to just trade corals or give them away with out telling about the flatworms..
the local community is way to small for that and my consion wouldn't handle it..

 

[alexjoha]

I have a mandarin, a scooter blenny, a firefish, a ruby dragonet pair, a royal gramma, a talbot damsel, a dwarf cherub angel, and a striped blenny in my 55g. And no visible flatworms on the glass ever.
I am a little cheesed at my mandarin because I watched him rip a medusa/spagetti worm out of my sandbed, shred it and eat it.

I have been wanting to add a mandarin to my system but I would like to wait until the tank is at least a year old but i guess they would have more then enough food in the tank atm..
How do you guys QT mandarins? I QT all my fish for 4 weeks.. 2 weeks in copper and 2 weeks with out and i dont think the mandarin would survive that..

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Only reason i can see for curing my tank with flatworm exit or to reboot the system is the moral code when and if i would like to give away frags or sell some to my friends so that i dont infect there tanks as well.
If they dont react to normal dips and dont die when i use large amounts of flatworm exit in a dip then i cant just sell frags and tell people "remember to dip" i have had/have flatworms.

and that is a real bummer for me since that would be a real show stopper for trading corals at coral meets and so on.. Im not willing to just trade corals or give them away with out telling about the flatworms..
the local community is way to small for that and my consion wouldn't handle it..

its definitely a personal choice. I don't give away chato for that reason.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have been wanting to add a mandarin to my system but I would like to wait until the tank is at least a year old but i guess they would have more then enough food in the tank atm..
How do you guys QT mandarins? I QT all my fish for 4 weeks.. 2 weeks in copper and 2 weeks with out and i dont think the mandarin would survive that..

mandarins and dragonette I personally "condition" in qt,frozen food and comfort is a big factor for them, mine is actually full of rock and sand. Observe and treat for internal parasites then ttm. IMO they dont do well in glass box qt. the slime coat makes them quite resistant to ick. they dont survive copper.

look at the striped blenny and kamohara from ORA as well. sweet little fish, crazy good little hunters with a hilarious hunting dance, and will shake its tail zero in and HIT the sand and rocks for food. Tiny mouth tiny food. who knows what its actually eating.

 

[alexjoha]

its definitely a personal choice. I don't give away chato for that reason.

What about corals? Do you trade them? i guess there will always be the chance that you will have something and thats why i would like to setup a QT for corals too now..
Hoped that a good dipping regime would hold but dosent look like that works with everything.. so QT for corals too now then.. :/