2020 Annual Pittsburgh 3RMAS Fragswap Thread
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JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
Could you please add the description and the details here for all the people who do not have Facebook?
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acer
Valuable Member
Here you go: The Fragswap will be on 5/9/2020 from noon till 5 PM. The location is: 1100 Fells Church Road, Rostraver Twp, Pa 15012-4713.
It is our annual frag swap, come see and buy awesome corals from vendors and other hobbyists. Vendor tables = (6 foot table with electric for LED light/small circulation pump, access the evening before for set up 8-10 PM or at 9 AM the day of the swap) are $100 plus a donation to the raffle of at least $50, or $150 with no raffle donation. We are limiting coral vendors to approximately 20. Hobbyist table (1/2 of a 6 foot table with electric - setup is allowed at 10 AM the morning of the swap) is $60 plus a frag or two donation ( $30) to the raffle. General Entrance is $5. We will be utilizing Reef Trader for the swap - so look for that on thier website Reeftrader.com.
It is our annual frag swap, come see and buy awesome corals from vendors and other hobbyists. Vendor tables = (6 foot table with electric for LED light/small circulation pump, access the evening before for set up 8-10 PM or at 9 AM the day of the swap) are $100 plus a donation to the raffle of at least $50, or $150 with no raffle donation. We are limiting coral vendors to approximately 20. Hobbyist table (1/2 of a 6 foot table with electric - setup is allowed at 10 AM the morning of the swap) is $60 plus a frag or two donation ( $30) to the raffle. General Entrance is $5. We will be utilizing Reef Trader for the swap - so look for that on thier website Reeftrader.com.
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loui
Valuable Member
Glad to see you found another venue I enjoyed the frag swap last year and didn't want to wait until 2021 for the next one. Out of curiosity why would't you use reeftrader? is there a fee to use the service?
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acer
Valuable Member
We have not yet decided, but I expect we will. However, there are Pro's and Con's. Can you currently get on reef-trader and see future swaps - including the LEAR swap in February? I cannot- so the discussion may be mute as the website may be shut down. I don't know - maybe just a software glitch.
Pro's = good exposure = more people at the swap which may then become members of the club, etc.
Con's = #1) Vendor's that pay the club to sell do not like the extra competition. #2) Reduces the number of hobbyists willing to purchase a hobbyist table = reduces revenues to the club. #3) Does not encourage any contact or any reason to join the club as a person can come with a cooler full of corals, pay $5 entry fee, sell corals for $$$$ and provide no real revenue or contact with the club - and the club is the one providing everything including putting money up front, time and effort of all the volunteers, etc. for this person to do nothing but come to make their money and leave. The club is putting on the Fragswap to help grow the club and to get people more involved in the reef community and to get more people to volunteer their time to help others. We are a non profit club and no one gets paid anything. That is not a complaint as much as an often overlooked truth.
If Reef-trader would share the revenue they make through advertising or at least donate to the swap raffle it would at least be something positive for the club. Remember - 99% of Fragswaps throughout the country do not have anything like "reef-trader" and they do not allow any pre-sales what so ever. If you have ever been to the Buffalo "Queen" swap you would see a packed house- no presales and like 40 vendors.
Just my 2 cents, the board will decide at the next Board meeting and I am personally OK with things either way.
Pro's = good exposure = more people at the swap which may then become members of the club, etc.
Con's = #1) Vendor's that pay the club to sell do not like the extra competition. #2) Reduces the number of hobbyists willing to purchase a hobbyist table = reduces revenues to the club. #3) Does not encourage any contact or any reason to join the club as a person can come with a cooler full of corals, pay $5 entry fee, sell corals for $$$$ and provide no real revenue or contact with the club - and the club is the one providing everything including putting money up front, time and effort of all the volunteers, etc. for this person to do nothing but come to make their money and leave. The club is putting on the Fragswap to help grow the club and to get people more involved in the reef community and to get more people to volunteer their time to help others. We are a non profit club and no one gets paid anything. That is not a complaint as much as an often overlooked truth.
If Reef-trader would share the revenue they make through advertising or at least donate to the swap raffle it would at least be something positive for the club. Remember - 99% of Fragswaps throughout the country do not have anything like "reef-trader" and they do not allow any pre-sales what so ever. If you have ever been to the Buffalo "Queen" swap you would see a packed house- no presales and like 40 vendors.
Just my 2 cents, the board will decide at the next Board meeting and I am personally OK with things either way.
barber42
Active Member
All of your cons are about the club... is the club not about the hobbyist? I know if i did a presale all of the money I made would be spent at the swap. Lear was posted on reeftrader today, people are currently posting.
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acer
Valuable Member
Barber42, Interesting, not sure how you took what I wrote as a con on the club. But , your entitled to your opinion. Yes, RT does now have the LEAR swap up. They must have had a temporary website issue. Like I said I am reasonably sure we will be using RT. I just wanted people to see both sides of the issue. But based on your post , I apparently didn't do a good job of that.
barber42
Active Member
Hard to express emotion in text, didn’t mean hard feelings! I know of people who pay the $5 entry to pick up presale items, they ended up buying more from vendors but came specifically for what they saw on RT.
I'm not trying to be negative, pick a fight, or take sides here, but I believe it is worth mentioning that there is value in using the reef-trader site. I have used reef-trader over the years to sell frags at multiple swaps. It is possible to make some money, but I usually end up spending a lot of money at each swap. Selling frags provides me with the opportunity to purchase new frags and to continue the hobby. I am not interested in bringing a tank, water, lights, etc., only to "guess" what frags will sell at a swap. Paying a reasonable fee for a table is acceptable to me, but only if I have the opportunity to pre-sell my items. Reef-trader allows a true "hobbiest" to sell/purchase frags, instead of the hobbiest who has made a business out of the hobby. Most of the time (including last year at the 3RMS swap), I have donated at least $100 worth of frags to the club for the raffle as a token of my appreciation. Unfortunately, my work schedule and other obligations do not permit me to be an active member of 3RMS at this time, but I enjoy the hobby and I enjoy attending frag swaps. I sincerely hope that the value of using reef-trader will be noted and it will be utilized for the swap in May.
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acer
Valuable Member
I think it's awesome you guys are showing such interest in the swap 5 months early. No hard feelings - yes, it is very difficult to express emotion and/or ideas sometimes in writing.
JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
1. The club in my opinion is not the hobbyist, it is the club member. No offense to anybody but how much time, money and effort do you expect from a group of people whom you don't see enough value in to pay a $30 membership fee and come hang out on occassion?
2. As much as most of us love frag swaps the reality is that we work as unpaid volunteers and ask others to do the same so that we can see a financial gain for the organization. No one puts on a frag swap just for the heck of it. It is always for gain. I like my job, but wouldn't keep going every day if I didn't get paid and neither would anyone I know. Frag swaps are a ton of work and while some might think we make a bunch of money I believe last year we profited like $200.
3. I myself like looking at the pre-listings on reeftrader probably more than most, but Acer's break down is accurate for the most part. You all know that I know hobbyists who sell at swaps and I know several that will pre-sell a grand or two and no the club doesn't see any form or profit from that. Acer is also correct that the rest of the country does not use anything like reeftrader. There is a private forum on reef2Reef for local club leaders and this topic has been discussed with clubs across the country. The whole reeftrader thing is only used in a small area and other places do not allow hobbyists to walk in with coolers and sell stuff. If you are selling stuff you area vendor, that is the bottom line as it is seen the other 90% of the country. That being said I am for using it, but people need to see it from both perspectives.
4. The truth is that the club does not need to do a swap. If having a swap does not turn a profit and increase club membership and participation we would not continue to work for no gain if you will. You do not need to be a club to have a frag swap. All the swaps in MI are one guy who puts them all together and he does it as a business venture. If the club decides not to continue to do swaps (I don't see that happening anytime soon) any one of you guys who are so passionate about it could just put on your own. Anyone of you could put on a swap as it is in the area if you wanted to put in that amount of work and make a days wages after spending months planning and multiple people working it the day of.
2. As much as most of us love frag swaps the reality is that we work as unpaid volunteers and ask others to do the same so that we can see a financial gain for the organization. No one puts on a frag swap just for the heck of it. It is always for gain. I like my job, but wouldn't keep going every day if I didn't get paid and neither would anyone I know. Frag swaps are a ton of work and while some might think we make a bunch of money I believe last year we profited like $200.
3. I myself like looking at the pre-listings on reeftrader probably more than most, but Acer's break down is accurate for the most part. You all know that I know hobbyists who sell at swaps and I know several that will pre-sell a grand or two and no the club doesn't see any form or profit from that. Acer is also correct that the rest of the country does not use anything like reeftrader. There is a private forum on reef2Reef for local club leaders and this topic has been discussed with clubs across the country. The whole reeftrader thing is only used in a small area and other places do not allow hobbyists to walk in with coolers and sell stuff. If you are selling stuff you area vendor, that is the bottom line as it is seen the other 90% of the country. That being said I am for using it, but people need to see it from both perspectives.
4. The truth is that the club does not need to do a swap. If having a swap does not turn a profit and increase club membership and participation we would not continue to work for no gain if you will. You do not need to be a club to have a frag swap. All the swaps in MI are one guy who puts them all together and he does it as a business venture. If the club decides not to continue to do swaps (I don't see that happening anytime soon) any one of you guys who are so passionate about it could just put on your own. Anyone of you could put on a swap as it is in the area if you wanted to put in that amount of work and make a days wages after spending months planning and multiple people working it the day of.
JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
Just so no one reads into that wrong it is the current club's focus and goal to make a frag swap in Pittsburgh an annual event and to grow it into a known top notch event.
barber42
Active Member
That great! What other avenues of advertising do the other clubs use? I suppose it was assumed reef trader is a great word of mouth way, “like hey look how much stuff is for sale in the Pittsburgh area, I bet it’s a great swap”. Is reef trader expensive, or does it just cause flack with the vendors? Seeing that Lear has had to limit the number of vendors this year, I didn’t really think reef trader had that much of an impact. Anyway, thanks for all you do for they hobbyist in the area.
honks69
New Member
When people do presell frags doesn’t that mean more people attend and that’s more revenue for the club?
Maybe reeftrader is expensive. If so I get not doing it but regardless of what the other parts of the country do, all the swaps around us seem to use it and people expect to see it listed on there.
Maybe reeftrader is expensive. If so I get not doing it but regardless of what the other parts of the country do, all the swaps around us seem to use it and people expect to see it listed on there.
JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
The Ohio Swaps and most PA swaps use it, but it is certainly a regional thing. From the club leader talk I was the only one in that convo who just said yeah that's how it was done. Every other person said "If you are selling at a show, you are a vendor so you have to pay the vendor fee" Vendors don't particularly like it because well why should they show up the day before and put the time and effort into setting up their tanks and everything plus all the expenses when the next guy can make the same amount of money just posting stuff up on RT. I know you guys are saying that you are going to sell your stuff and then go spend that money with vendors, but if you aren't selling and just buying it's either buy it from a setup vendor or buy it from ReefTrader.
ReefTrader does not cost us anything. As I said, my personal opinion is that I like checking it all out just like the rest of you guys in this thread. My job as the clubs President is not to just go with what I like, but to serve the desires of the club and it's members.
ReefTrader does not cost us anything. As I said, my personal opinion is that I like checking it all out just like the rest of you guys in this thread. My job as the clubs President is not to just go with what I like, but to serve the desires of the club and it's members.
loui
Valuable Member
Guess you can limit how many different corals some one can sell unless they pay the 30.00 club membership. So if you have more then 5 adds then u need to pay the 30.00 membership fee.
barber42
Active Member
I know I bought from reeftrader off of 3 vendors and 2 hobbyist. For sure there were more vendors that had stuff on reeftrader. You guys have the experience though, I trust it will be fun!
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acer
Valuable Member
I think all Jaime and I are trying to say is that its just not a "no brainer" to use Reeftrader - in other words - there is more than one way to look at things. So, if anybody has strong opinions on the subject , please feel free to join the club, become a board member, etc. Remember, all the members and especially the board members are hobbyists - we all personally love Reeftrader, but as club board members trying to do what is best for the club, it complicates things.
