1950’s home. No ground but adding a GFCI. Need help

[Denisk]

Hey all,

I have a question for any electricians and or people who can help me with this. Just bought my first house with my wife (SUPER HAPPY) however it is a 1950’s single family home. I set up up my tank and noticed the outlet I plan to use isn’t grounded. Now I can’t unfortunately add a ground at the moment with running a ground wire all the way to electrical box. So what I wanted to know if I can still install a GFCI outlet. I read online that a gfci will technically still work without a ground wire screwed into the green bolt. I’m far from an electrician but I want to make sure what I read was right. I do plan to eventually run a ground wire but wanted to know if the gfci can still be installed and safely work as is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[Brew12]

Hey all,

I have a question for any electricians and or people who can help me with this. Just bought my first house with my wife (SUPER HAPPY) however it is a 1950’s single family home. I set up up my tank and noticed the outlet I plan to use isn’t grounded. Now I can’t unfortunately add a ground at the moment with running a ground wire all the way to electrical box. So what I wanted to know if I can still install a GFCI outlet. I read online that a gfci will technically still work without a ground wire screwed into the green bolt. I’m far from an electrician but I want to make sure what I read was right. I do plan to eventually run a ground wire but wanted to know if the gfci can still be installed and safely work as is.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Yes, a GFCI will still provide some protection and may be installed. The GFCI receptacle package should include a sticker that you are required to attach to the front plate saying that the outlet isn't grounded.

 

[Denisk]

Yes, a GFCI will still provide some protection and may be installed. The GFCI receptacle package should include a sticker that you are required to attach to the front plate saying that the outlet isn't grounded.

Got it. That’s what I read as far as the sticker goes. Thank you so much.

Can I ask, when you say it’ll still provide some protection. Is there something I should sill be aware of?

 

[Brew12]

Got it. That’s what I read as far as the sticker goes. Thank you so much.

Can I ask, when you say it’ll still provide some protection. Is there something I should sill be aware of?

There is. For instance, if you plug in a light fixture or heater with a 3 prong plug into that outlet since it will now accept them. Normally, if the hot wire in the light/heater faulted to the case it would trip the GFCI immediately because some current would travel from the housing through ground. With no ground available, a faulted piece of equipment may still not trip the GFCI until you touch it. You become the path to ground causing the GFCI to trip.
This is orders of magnitude safer than pulling the ground plug off and using a 2 prong outlet, but it is still less than ideal. After all, this is why ground wires are required in all new installations.

 

[Denisk]

There is. For instance, if you plug in a light fixture or heater with a 3 prong plug into that outlet since it will now accept them. Normally, if the hot wire in the light/heater faulted to the case it would trip the GFCI immediately because some current would travel from the housing through ground. With no ground available, a faulted piece of equipment may still not trip the GFCI until you touch it. You become the path to ground causing the GFCI to trip.
This is orders of magnitude safer than pulling the ground plug off and using a 2 prong outlet, but it is still less than ideal. After all, this is why ground wires are required in all new installations.

So for the time being, if I need to stick my hand in or feed my fish it’s best to turn off any 3 prong outlets? Btw Thanks for all the help.

 

[dimo]

Is the conduit in your home all metal?

 

[Denisk]

Is the conduit in your home all metal?

I believe the electrical box is metal if that’s what your asking.

 

[Brew12]

So for the time being, if I need to stick my hand in or feed my fish it’s best to turn off any 3 prong outlets? Btw Thanks for all the help.

That's a tough call. I would make installing the GFCI receptacles a priority. A 2 prong device is double insulated giving an extra layer of protection but is still at risk of electrical failure in salt water.

Is the conduit in your home all metal?

It is very unusual to see homes that use conduit at all. Normally you only see this in areas with very strong electrical unions, like Indiana.

I believe the electrical box is metal if that’s what your asking.

Conduit is a pipe used to run wires in. It can be metal or PVC.

 

[andrewkw]

Hey all,

I’m far from an electrician

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

My recommendation would be to hire a licensed electrician. That's what I did even though a gfci is likely not that difficult of a task. You can also get separate breakers installed for the tank which would leave room for upgrades in the future too. Better safe than sorry unless you have some experience.

 

[dimo]

I believe the electrical box is metal if that’s what your asking.

In Chicago where I'm from, we don't use ground wires. The entire electrical wiring in the house is encased metal, which is grounded. The outlet box, metal conduit for wires to run in, and main panel all metal. We have a lot of older houses here and that's how it's always been done.

If your outlet screws into a metal box in your wall, then you probably won't need any ground wire. We leave the green screws empty on outlets since we are grounded to the box in the wall.

 

[dimo]

It is very unusual to see homes that use conduit at all. Normally you only see this in areas with very strong electrical unions, like Indiana.

It's funny you mention that. For many of us in the midwest it's exactly the opposite. When I want tv shows and see people using armored cable and plastic boxes and bunch of question marks fly in my head and I assume there in some other country. Took me a long time to realize it's actually very common practice outside of where I'm from.

 

[Denisk]

That's a tough call. I would make installing the GFCI receptacles a priority. A 2 prong device is double insulated giving an extra layer of protection but is still at risk of electrical failure in salt water.

I was referring to turning three prong stuff off if I already install the gfci. The gfci will be installed no matter what. I was saying if I install the gfci would it be safe. Like I said I’m just not an electrician so I don’t understand everything the first go around haha.


Conduit is a pipe used to run wires in. It can be metal or PVC.

In Chicago where I'm from, we don't use ground wires. The entire electrical wiring in the house is encased metal, which is grounded. The outlet box, metal conduit for wires to run in, and main panel all metal. We have a lot of older houses here and that's how it's always been done.

If your outlet screws into a metal box in your wall, then you probably won't need any ground wire. We leave the green screws empty on outlets since we are grounded to the box in the wall.

Got it. Thanks.

My recommendation would be to hire a licensed electrician. That's what I did even though a gfci is likely not that difficult of a task. You can also get separate breakers installed for the tank which would leave room for upgrades in the future too. Better safe than sorry unless you have some experience.

Installed tons of gfcis and done plenty small electrical stuff however not in a 1950’s home. I had a licensed electrician come in to already run a dedicated 20amp breaker/outlets but that’s for later upgrade in the basement. This is in the living room and to run a full dedicated line all the way, was too much and the whole house was already painted.

 

[Denisk]

That's a tough call. I would make installing the GFCI receptacles a priority. A 2 prong device is double insulated giving an extra layer of protection but is still at risk of electrical failure in salt water.


It is very unusual to see homes that use conduit at all. Normally you only see this in areas with very strong electrical unions, like Indiana.


Conduit is a pipe used to run wires in. It can be metal or PVC.

I was referring to turning three prong stuff off if I already install the gfci. The gfci will be installed no matter what , I was referring my question if the gfci was in play. Since you said I would be the ground path that may cause it to trip, I didn’t understand if that means I would be electrocuted. Like I said I understand Reef’s but not electrical talk.

 

[Brew12]

I was referring to turning three prong stuff off if I already install the gfci. The gfci will be installed no matter what , I was referring my question if the gfci was in play. Since you said I would be the ground path that may cause it to trip, I didn’t understand if that means I would be electrocuted. Like I said I understand Reef’s but not electrical talk.

Sorry, I didn't understand what you were asking.

No, with the GFCI installed, there is no reason to unplug anything to work on the tank. It should trip before you feel more than a slight tingle, if that.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

@Brew12 if the first outlet that’s feeding the other outlets is grounded does that make any difference ?

 

[Potatohead]

Didn't realize some people use conduit to run wiring until now. lol

 

[Denisk]

Sorry, I didn't understand what you were asking.

No, with the GFCI installed, there is no reason to unplug anything to work on the tank. It should trip before you feel more than a slight tingle, if that.

Got it. Thank you so much!!

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 if the first outlet that’s feeding the other outlets is grounded does that make any difference ?

No, only if the ground is carried through to each outlet.

 

[TheLadyCrash]

In Chicago where I'm from, we don't use ground wires. The entire electrical wiring in the house is encased metal, which is grounded. The outlet box, metal conduit for wires to run in, and main panel all metal. We have a lot of older houses here and that's how it's always been done.

If your outlet screws into a metal box in your wall, then you probably won't need any ground wire. We leave the green screws empty on outlets since we are grounded to the box in the wall.

I’m from Chicago as well and I’ve always known the wiring runs to a metal box and through metal conduit, but for some reason it never clicked in my head that it’s probably already grounded. Suddenly explains a lot of electrical things I never quite understood.

 

[Brew12]

I’m from Chicago as well and I’ve always known the wiring runs to a metal box and through metal conduit, but for some reason it never clicked in my head that it’s probably already grounded. Suddenly explains a lot of electrical things I never quite understood.

I'm originally from Chicago so I am familiar with the conduit requirements there.

In most of the country a normal 3 conductor wire is run right through the walls. It is laid out across the attic or hangs down through the crawl space. No conduit, no armor. Makes wiring a house or adding a new circuit very easy.
Areas with a strong union presence tend to require the conduit. It requires a much greater amount of skill and equipment to install properly. It almost guarantees any new construction or additions/upgrades must be done by a union electrician.